300k+ a year

"Sandy" wrote in message
...
On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a déclaré...:
wrote in message
...

"Kurgan. presented by wrote in
message
...
On Jan 2, 12:30 am, wrote:


I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete.

If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just
reality.

You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have
it.

I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If
pro
men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably
making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their
salaries from bike racing. How ****ed up it that? I'd say the men are
worse
off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group. There's
no
need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or
Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women get
paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you
add
in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even
getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much
better
deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working
regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay
very
well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance
and
company.


You gaver him the last word - keep your word, already!

That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway.

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
"Sandy" wrote in message
...
On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a déclaré...:
wrote in message
...
"Kurgan. presented by wrote in
message
...
On Jan 2, 12:30 am, wrote:

I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete.
If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just
reality.

You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have
it.
I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If
pro
men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably
making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their
salaries from bike racing. How ****ed up it that? I'd say the men are
worse
off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group. There's
no
need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or
Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women get
paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you
add
in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even
getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much
better
deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working
regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay
very
well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance
and
company.


You gaver him the last word - keep your word, already!

That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway.

Retard,

It only looks that way because you use Outlook Express.

Bob Schwartz

"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message
news
William Asher wrote:
Amit Ghosh wrote in
:
On Jan 2, 1:30 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:

I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men.
If
pro
men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are
probably making more then that working full or part time jobs when
you add in thei
r
salaries from bike racing.
dumbass,

you're comparing apples to oranges.

True, but this thread is almost as good as the "riding off of rollers"
thread in terms of the cognitive dissonance.

Dumbass,

No, no, no. For cognitive dissonance you have to look at a guy like
Fennelli, who is in total denial about the hordes of top level
women racers that live near him. His denial is so complete that he
doesn't even recognize 38th on NRC as a place to find top level women
racers.

Sheesh.

Bob Schwartz

Dip****,

I listed a few who were cat 1,2,3,4. So big ****ing deal, where's there
smoke there's fire. I bet there have been several pro riders that came out
of UCSB and Goleta, SB over the past few decades. I never said they were
superstars, but they placed well in some races against some well known names
at that time. NRC was just a reference to the fact some racers particapaded
in NRC events, which means they were more then just rec riders. He didn't
clarify what his thoughts were until later, so its not my mistake for
pointing out a few riders who did race from SB.

Bruce, you said:
Riders from Santa Barbara...
Meredith Mills and Jennifer Gabet are both Cat 1-2, from Santa Barbara,
Gabet is from Goleta. Angela Rebol is from Santa Barbara, how about
Michelle La Pierre or Amanda McCoy, all from Santa Barbara. Amy Nett, Lila
Ferguson and Angela Bell are all pro cyclists from Santa Barbara.


So, because I don't like exaggerations or faulty implications, I said:
I'm sorry, but you are wrong in this matter.
...
... they are not pro bike racers.

This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested
some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of
some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national
level.

We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly speaking,
"Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a UCI
professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's side
to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer who is
competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your examples still
don't fly.

Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are
generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the
men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a
UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period.

And then you went on to say:
I have a friend who lives in Goleta
...
He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries.

And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked:
who is your friend in Goleta who races?

And you responed:
He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and
double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few
things.

Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but these
exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do know a
lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions above.

You said:
I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing
you are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I
guessing Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson
salary either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k,
even more in some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a
pity and a shock.

I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have
plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject
....even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting information.

Mark

"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message
...
GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
"Sandy" wrote in message
...
On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a
déclaré...:
wrote in message
...
"Kurgan. presented by wrote in
message
...
On Jan 2, 12:30 am, wrote:

I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said.
Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete.
If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just
reality.

You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can
have
it.
I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If
pro
men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably
making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in
their
salaries from bike racing. How ****ed up it that? I'd say the men are
worse
off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group.
There's no
need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or
Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women
get
paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you
add
in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even
getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much
better
deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working
regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay
very
well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance
and
company.


You gaver him the last word - keep your word, already!

That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway.

Retard,

It only looks that way because you use Outlook Express.

Bob Schwartz

****head,

Thousands of people use the free Outlook news agent, get over it. The bugs
are a minor issue to me.

In article ,
Donald Munro wrote:

Donald Munro wrote:
If she was Canadian it wouldn't have cost a penny (or dime or whatever
the Canadian currency equivalent is).

Scott wrote:
No, I'm pretty sure even Canadians pay for the health care they get.
They just pay it to a US-based doctor.

Dumbass,
I think we will have to continue responding to each others trolls since
no one on rbr seems to appreciate our trolling talents. Either that or
we should try trolling alt.mensa or join Mr Vidmar in the chess groups
and try trolling them.

As far as I can tell the chess groups have no
concept of trolling (or humor). It will be a
lonely endeavor, since nobody will ever snap to;
and without credit for the same reason.

--
Michael Press

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
I listed a few who were cat 1,2,3,4. So big ****ing deal, where's there
smoke there's fire. I bet there have been several pro riders that came out
of UCSB and Goleta, SB over the past few decades.

True, but only on the mens' side. The exception is Lynn Brontzman/Gaggioli
who went to UCSB. I cannot think of any other examples of pro women from
this area. For that matter, I cannot think of a single cat 1 woman from
here. Kim Anderson only recently moved here, so she doesn't count.

I never said they were superstars, but they placed well in some races
against some well known names at that time. NRC was just a reference to
the fact some racers particapaded in NRC events, which means they were
more then just rec riders. He didn't clarify what his thoughts were until
later, so its not my mistake for pointing out a few riders who did race
from SB.

I'm searching for an easy-to-agree-on distinction between recreational
racing and what you are considering "pro" and I'm struggling. Just because a
woman racer can and does enter an event that has real Pro women
participating, it does not put her on that level. Same thing definitely
applies to the mens' side.

"marco" wrote in message
...

This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested
some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of
some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national
level.

Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took
to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them
ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none
of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and
raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers.
At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very
big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are
racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race
often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not
what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often
enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems
there were a few.

I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were
neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some
well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but
IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering
this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat
after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be
really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years.

We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly
speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a
UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's
side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer
who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your
examples still don't fly.

I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a
UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro
1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of
any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made
little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid
professionals like Tibco, etc.

Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are
generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the
men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a
UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period.

My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I
consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch,
and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times,
although some work part or full time jobs.


And then you went on to say:
I have a friend who lives in Goleta
...
He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries.

And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked:
who is your friend in Goleta who races?

And you responed:
He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and
double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few
things.

You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in
rbr, but I am not trying to win this one. Why does everything have to be a
he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake
there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not
something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He
did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does
singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might
know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big
fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I
had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there
on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess
Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been
to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where
Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends
works at the Art Musuem on state street.


Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but
these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do
know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions
above.

I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar
talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just
shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you
can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and
mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort
through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of **** out there for
someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic,
although some people revel in that.



I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have
plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject
...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting
information.

Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race
organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance
with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the
women riders. You know who to ask.

GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
"marco" wrote in message
...

This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested
some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of
some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national
level.

Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took
to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them
ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none
of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and
raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers.
At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very
big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are
racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race
often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not
what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often
enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems
there were a few.

I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were
neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some
well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but
IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering
this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat
after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be
really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years.

We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly
speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a
UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's
side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer
who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your
examples still don't fly.

I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a
UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro
1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of
any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made
little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid
professionals like Tibco, etc.
Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are
generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the
men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a
UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period.

My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I
consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch,
and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times,
although some work part or full time jobs.

And then you went on to say:
I have a friend who lives in Goleta
...
He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries.
And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked:
who is your friend in Goleta who races?
And you responed:
He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and
double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few
things.

You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in
rbr, but I am not trying to win this one.


Then shut up.




















Why does everything have to be a
he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake
there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not
something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He
did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does
singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might
know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big
fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I
had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there
on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess
Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been
to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where
Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends
works at the Art Musuem on state street.


Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but
these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do
know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions
above.

I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar
talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just
shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you
can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and
mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort
through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of **** out there for
someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic,
although some people revel in that.



I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have
plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject
...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting
information.

Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race
organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance
with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the
women riders. You know who to ask.

On Jan 2, 5:13*pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:
"marco" wrote in message

...

This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested
some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of
some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national
level.

Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took
to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them
ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none
of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and
raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers..
At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very
big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are
racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race
often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not
what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often
enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems
there were a few.

I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were
neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some
well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but
IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering
this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat
after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be
really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years.

We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly
speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a
UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's
side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer
who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your
examples still don't fly.

I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a
UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro
1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of
any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made
little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid
professionals like Tibco, etc.



Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are
generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the
men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a
UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period.

My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I
consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch,
and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times,
although some work part or full time jobs.



And then you went on to say:
I have a friend who lives in Goleta
...
He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries.

And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked:
who is your friend in Goleta who races?

And you responed:
He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and
double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few
things.

You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in
rbr, but I am not trying to win this one. Why does everything have to be a
he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake
there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not
something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He
did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does
singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might
know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big
fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I
had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there
on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess
Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been
to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where
Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends
works at the Art Musuem on state street.

Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but
these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do
know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions
above.

I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar
talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just
shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you
can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and
mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort
through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of **** out there for
someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic,
although some people revel in that.

I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have
plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject
...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting
information.

Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race
organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance
with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the
women riders. You know who to ask.

Goddamn you are verbose.