visibility

On 6/29/2016 7:31 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Ah, but that had nothing to do with bicycles. That was to avoid
scaring the horses, which, it might be noted" were far more important
to the world, in their time, then bicycles are today ;-)

Judging from the rules on trails, horses are still more important. They
make a huge mess of the trails, far worse than bicycles, in terms of
erosion, plus they leave all that crap behind.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 06:47:42 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/29/2016 3:37 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

The condescension comes for denigrating the vast majority of the world's
cyclists for not agreeing with you.

They may choose to not use DRLs, but they do not disagree that there is
a proven benefit to using them, and least if they are depending on
facts, rather than emotion.

That is fiction rather than fact.

My experience, in four or five countries is exactly the opposite. Even
in Japan, when bicycles were nearly universally used as transportation
and nearly all bicycles had a front light, they were not used during
daylight.


We all make choices as to the risks we are willing to take. Many people
don't wear helmets even though they are well aware of the benefits
should they be involved in a crash involving head impact.

The reason the use of bicycle DRLs has become so widespread, at least in
areas where people have a high level of education, is partly because of
the effect that they observe, and partly because the functionality is
there on their lights anyway. That's fine. As a motorist I appreciate
cyclists that use DRLs because they make themselves much more
conspicuous. And as a cyclist, I want to make myself more conspicuous to
motorists. It's a win-win for everyone.

"So wide spread"? Utter rubbish.

The Netherlands:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqkDiExIEiE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lceg9Md9sTI
China:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q5qxe3DqlI
Vietnam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGXLpIBK8ts
India:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhxPKFkEYaA
Egypt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuLVBfgqPe8
Italy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWNeIBVCrK4
England:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v70zd21Li2M

Note the almost universal world wide use of DRLs.
--
cheers,

John B.

Am 29.06.2016 um 15:47 schrieb sms:
On 6/29/2016 3:37 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

The condescension comes for denigrating the vast majority of the world's
cyclists for not agreeing with you.

The reason the use of bicycle DRLs has become so widespread, at least in
areas where people have a high level of education, is partly because of
the effect that they observe, and partly because the functionality is
there on their lights anyway.

Cities like Cambridge (UK) or Heidelberg (Germany) have extremely high
levels of education and high levels of bicycle use and 1% of the
cyclists use DRLs.

Well, JB ...speculate against spectrum strobe lighting, prophesize a use/no use=accident chart, try en loco absurdiu
m

but deny lighting reduces accidents ?

SF data unaaceptable....skews common USA standards as Miami.

///////////////////////////x

Cities like Cambridge (UK) or Heidelberg (Germany) have extremely high
levels of education and high levels of bicycle use and 1% of the
cyclists use DRLs.

..... neither area known for expertise in perceptual studies of human behavior

On 6/30/2016 12:41 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 29.06.2016 um 15:47 schrieb sms:
On 6/29/2016 3:37 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

The condescension comes for denigrating the vast majority of the
world's
cyclists for not agreeing with you.

The reason the use of bicycle DRLs has become so widespread, at least in
areas where people have a high level of education, is partly because of
the effect that they observe, and partly because the functionality is
there on their lights anyway.

Cities like Cambridge (UK) or Heidelberg (Germany) have extremely high
levels of education and high levels of bicycle use and 1% of the
cyclists use DRLs.

In Germany they are not legal. The UK, well the UK is the UK.

On 6/30/2016 2:41 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 29.06.2016 um 15:47 schrieb sms:
On 6/29/2016 3:37 AM, Duane wrote:

snip

The condescension comes for denigrating the vast
majority of the world's
cyclists for not agreeing with you.

The reason the use of bicycle DRLs has become so
widespread, at least in
areas where people have a high level of education, is
partly because of
the effect that they observe, and partly because the
functionality is
there on their lights anyway.

Cities like Cambridge (UK) or Heidelberg (Germany) have
extremely high levels of education and high levels of
bicycle use and 1% of the cyclists use DRLs.


(paraphrase Groucho Marx) Who are you going to believe, some
guy on usenet or your own lying eyes?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/29/2016 7:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-28 19:42, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2016 8:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-28 15:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2016 2:13 PM, Joerg wrote:

As I said many times now there are hardly any [cut-off incidents]
since installing bright
DRL. Therefore, I will continue their use.

Why did you get so many _before_ you installed your daytime lights?


Simple. Mostly because people thought I was slower. Some told me so when
I stopped just short of smashing into the driver side door. Well, one
time when I did bang into it because there wasn't enough space.

Hmm. Are we back to your "I'm a really, really fast cyclist" spiel,
after a few weeks of your "I never said I was very fast"?


Are you one of those who aren't capable of grasping the difference
between average speed and top speed?

Many car drivers can't imagine a bicycle might be coming at them at
30mph. With bright DRL they think it's some sort of motorized vehicle
and that's good.

Before high-efficiency, high-lumen LEDs were available, I was using two
sealed beams http://oi66.tinypic.com/1491mcw.jpg and that was very
effective at solving the "a bicycle must be going really slow" problem
because, as you wrote, they apparently did not think it was a bicycle.

With LED lights, a wide beam has a similar effect. That's one reason I
like adjustable spot/flood lights. Good for very dark MUPs with a
moderate beam angle, and good for roads and a DRL with a wide beam
angle. At last year's Interbike there was a mock-up of a bicycle
specific light with an adjustable beam, but I can't find any more about
it online.

The ultimate bicycle light would be something like this
http://www.aliexpress.com/item//32362672269.html with a
well-constructed bike mount. You can also charge it via a dynamo with an
AC-+5VDC converter board which costs only about $5.

On 2016-06-30 07:21, sms wrote:
On 6/29/2016 7:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-28 19:42, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2016 8:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-28 15:50, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2016 2:13 PM, Joerg wrote:

As I said many times now there are hardly any [cut-off incidents]
since installing bright
DRL. Therefore, I will continue their use.

Why did you get so many _before_ you installed your daytime lights?


Simple. Mostly because people thought I was slower. Some told me so
when
I stopped just short of smashing into the driver side door. Well, one
time when I did bang into it because there wasn't enough space.

Hmm. Are we back to your "I'm a really, really fast cyclist" spiel,
after a few weeks of your "I never said I was very fast"?


Are you one of those who aren't capable of grasping the difference
between average speed and top speed?

Many car drivers can't imagine a bicycle might be coming at them at
30mph. With bright DRL they think it's some sort of motorized vehicle
and that's good.

Before high-efficiency, high-lumen LEDs were available, I was using two
sealed beams http://oi66.tinypic.com/1491mcw.jpg and that was very
effective at solving the "a bicycle must be going really slow" problem
because, as you wrote, they apparently did not think it was a bicycle.


That's the objective. Decades ago I still used bicycle lights (Union
brand and such) but with halogen bulbs for massive mil-style lights in
there. This required a large battery, first lead-acid and later NiCd.

I wish I had known about the trick of letting a dynamo run to 12V or
higher for more power and use a switcher to step it down to the battery
voltage back then.


With LED lights, a wide beam has a similar effect. That's one reason I
like adjustable spot/flood lights. Good for very dark MUPs with a
moderate beam angle, and good for roads and a DRL with a wide beam
angle. At last year's Interbike there was a mock-up of a bicycle
specific light with an adjustable beam, but I can't find any more about
it online.


It's also good for trails. I can now safely do 15mph there at night.


The ultimate bicycle light would be something like this
http://www.aliexpress.com/item//32362672269.html with a
well-constructed bike mount. You can also charge it via a dynamo with an
AC-+5VDC converter board which costs only about $5.


That one can blind other riders and motorists. I prefer lamps where you
can easily mount a diffusor lens in a way that it is sturdy, dust-proof
and can take rain.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/