Opinions on REI brand bikes (Novara)?

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:


Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article .com,
"Zix" wrote:


[REI Novara]


I was looking at their Strada racing bike which has an
aluminum frame and Shimano 105 components in 5 places,
and I was curious if anyone had any experience with this
bike. Here is a link:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500865


Personally I am not sure that an Alu frame is for me,
having experienced for a year the Alu stiffness factor in
my previous bike, but I'm responding to the components
and sale price and trying to be practical.


Behold the Approved Standard rbt answer:


-the feel of "stiffness" is best tuned by adjusting your bike's tire
pressure in 5 psi increments. There are only a few exceptions, most
notoriously the infamously whippy Vitus 979 frames. The second most
important factor in the ride of a bike is probably frame geometry,
followed by the type of bar tape you use.

that's parody, right? tire pressure has absolutely ZERO effect on a
frame's mechanical properties or a wheel's mechanical properties, both
of which are significant factors in ride quality. it may be ok to joke
about this stuff once in a while, but it's dangerous here on r.b.t.
because repetition means people start to believe the most outrageous
b.s. as "fact".


Jim, I hope I'm not misrepresenting others here, but my impression is
that one regular in this newsgroup who makes his living designing and
selling titanium frames (Mark Hickey) and one regular in this newsgroup
who literally wrote the book on bicycle wheels (Jobst Brandt) have both
basically said that given the relative amounts of flex in an inflated
tire (significant by design) and virtually any bike frame or wheel
(magnitudes smaller), the chance of the frame or wheel's "ride quality"
being discernible to any sensible degree is virtually nil.

well, i wouldn't call hickey a "designer". he merely parrots anything
brandt says, has no interest in data acquisition and doesn't know what
modulus is. brandt otoh uses deliberately misleading examples to try to
convince either himself or others that he knows what he's talking about.
if a bike had /no/ tires, it would still react to loading based on its
structure. the fact that loading still ends up being transmitted to the
bike via the tires cannot be avoided - a 200lb person sitting on a bike
still exerts a 200lb load regardless of tire pressure.

I would treat geometry considerations separately: angles and dimensions
affect how a bike feels in interesting ways, but most bikes exist within
fairly small variations on these parameters.

I know you disagree, but I judge the "tire-supremacist" arguments as the
most reasonable explanation. My own experience has been that frame
materials are not very important to bike feel, but I would not put
myself forward as an expert.

i don't know much about tires either, but i know a bit about materials
and their application, and i can say with certainty that the structural
attributes of a bike are /not/ affected by tire pressure. and it's the
structural attributes that affect the way a bike reacts to you riding it.

i don't know much about tires either, but i know a bit about materials and
their application, and i can say with certainty that the structural
attributes of a bike are /not/ affected by tire pressure. and it's the
structural attributes that affect the way a bike reacts to you riding it.

I think the point being made was more relevant to tires affecting *comfort*
of the ride. Frame "stiffness" obviously isn't affected by anything you toss
onto it, but overall comfort is definitely impacted by tire choice.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"jim beam" wrote in message
t...
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:


Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article .com,
"Zix" wrote:


[REI Novara]


I was looking at their Strada racing bike which has an
aluminum frame and Shimano 105 components in 5 places,
and I was curious if anyone had any experience with this
bike. Here is a link:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500865


Personally I am not sure that an Alu frame is for me,
having experienced for a year the Alu stiffness factor in
my previous bike, but I'm responding to the components
and sale price and trying to be practical.


Behold the Approved Standard rbt answer:


-the feel of "stiffness" is best tuned by adjusting your bike's tire
pressure in 5 psi increments. There are only a few exceptions, most
notoriously the infamously whippy Vitus 979 frames. The second most
important factor in the ride of a bike is probably frame geometry,
followed by the type of bar tape you use.

that's parody, right? tire pressure has absolutely ZERO effect on a
frame's mechanical properties or a wheel's mechanical properties, both of
which are significant factors in ride quality. it may be ok to joke
about this stuff once in a while, but it's dangerous here on r.b.t.
because repetition means people start to believe the most outrageous b.s.
as "fact".


Jim, I hope I'm not misrepresenting others here, but my impression is
that one regular in this newsgroup who makes his living designing and
selling titanium frames (Mark Hickey) and one regular in this newsgroup
who literally wrote the book on bicycle wheels (Jobst Brandt) have both
basically said that given the relative amounts of flex in an inflated
tire (significant by design) and virtually any bike frame or wheel
(magnitudes smaller), the chance of the frame or wheel's "ride quality"
being discernible to any sensible degree is virtually nil.

well, i wouldn't call hickey a "designer". he merely parrots anything
brandt says, has no interest in data acquisition and doesn't know what
modulus is. brandt otoh uses deliberately misleading examples to try to
convince either himself or others that he knows what he's talking about.
if a bike had /no/ tires, it would still react to loading based on its
structure. the fact that loading still ends up being transmitted to the
bike via the tires cannot be avoided - a 200lb person sitting on a bike
still exerts a 200lb load regardless of tire pressure.

I would treat geometry considerations separately: angles and dimensions
affect how a bike feels in interesting ways, but most bikes exist within
fairly small variations on these parameters.

I know you disagree, but I judge the "tire-supremacist" arguments as the
most reasonable explanation. My own experience has been that frame
materials are not very important to bike feel, but I would not put myself
forward as an expert.

i don't know much about tires either, but i know a bit about materials and
their application, and i can say with certainty that the structural
attributes of a bike are /not/ affected by tire pressure. and it's the
structural attributes that affect the way a bike reacts to you riding it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Avoid aluminum road bikes if you desire comfort. For all day rides find
a steel frame. Novars bike have a good reputation. I'd advise to find
a ike that is comfortable first.

Well, that advice is a bit vague. Cannondale's made aluminum framed touring
bikes for a long time, and their bikes have been ridden millions of miles. A
well designed aluminum touring bike with big fat tires should be very
comfortable. However, I rode a KHS racing bike with 23s that was a
tooth-rattler. I don't know if this was a frame material issue, a tire size
issue, a geometry issue, or a combination of any or all of those.

Zix wrote:
Hi all,

Here is in the USA we have a co-op outdoor store chain
called Recreational Equipment Inc (REI) which has its own
brand of bikes called Novara.

I was looking at their Strada racing bike which has an
aluminum frame and Shimano 105 components in 5 places,
and I was curious if anyone had any experience with this
bike. Here is a link:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500865

From a parts perspective it looks good to me (I'm not
a bike mechanic, nor rich) but I don't know about the frame.
I was told by a salesman it was made in Taiwan by the same
manufacturer that makes the Litespeed. I haven't verified that
claim with the customer service people yet.

Can anybody offer any experiences / insights / advice
on whether this might be a good bike to get? It's on sale
locally is why I ask.

Personally I am not sure that an Alu frame is for me,
having experienced for a year the Alu stiffness factor in
my previous bike, but I'm responding to the components
and sale price and trying to be practical.

Thanks.

I have a Novara (steel road) bike that I purchased in the early '90s,
which I recently upgraded the drivetrain to 10s. I think they are a
great value when they are on sale.

The staff/parts stock at the local stores makes a big difference,
subject to huge variability between different locations. At the time
of purchase, my front wheel had schrader (the rear had presta), which I
insisted that they replace (and they did). I was a bike mechanic in a
former life, so I replaced the ill-fitting stock stem/handlebar with
some Modolo's which they had in stock. They didn't seem to be
happy/willing with doing the replacement work at the time, so I did it
myself, on the premises, before I bought it. (Yes, IOW, service was
poor at the store where I bought it, but I didn't really care since I
knew what I was doing. YMMV)

I cannot attest to their (or anyone else's) Al frames since I have a
personal bias against Al, un-alignable and harsh rides. In my
experience most stock Al frames are misaligned, and can't be corrected.
This bias against Al was from a few experiences riding my brother's
Cannondale, which he un-coincidentally, no longer rides.

Gooserider wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Avoid aluminum road bikes if you desire comfort. For all day rides find
a steel frame. Novars bike have a good reputation. I'd advise to find
a ike that is comfortable first.


Well, that advice is a bit vague. Cannondale's made aluminum framed touring
bikes for a long time, and their bikes have been ridden millions of miles. A
well designed aluminum touring bike with big fat tires should be very
comfortable. However, I rode a KHS racing bike with 23s that was a
tooth-rattler. I don't know if this was a frame material issue, a tire size
issue, a geometry issue, or a combination of any or all of those.


combination. my aluminum nashbar definitely promotes dentistry. my
aluminum bianchi with curved rear stays is so comfy you could use it in
front of the tv. go figure.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
i don't know much about tires either, but i know a bit about materials and
their application, and i can say with certainty that the structural
attributes of a bike are /not/ affected by tire pressure. and it's the
structural attributes that affect the way a bike reacts to you riding it.


I think the point being made was more relevant to tires affecting *comfort*
of the ride. Frame "stiffness" obviously isn't affected by anything you toss
onto it, but overall comfort is definitely impacted by tire choice.

we agree. but tires are not the /only/ thing affecting comfort as some
would have us believe.


--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"jim beam" wrote in message
t...

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,
jim beam wrote:



Ryan Cousineau wrote:


In article .com,
"Zix" wrote:


[REI Novara]



I was looking at their Strada racing bike which has an
aluminum frame and Shimano 105 components in 5 places,
and I was curious if anyone had any experience with this
bike. Here is a link:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500865


Personally I am not sure that an Alu frame is for me,
having experienced for a year the Alu stiffness factor in
my previous bike, but I'm responding to the components
and sale price and trying to be practical.


Behold the Approved Standard rbt answer:


-the feel of "stiffness" is best tuned by adjusting your bike's tire
pressure in 5 psi increments. There are only a few exceptions, most
notoriously the infamously whippy Vitus 979 frames. The second most
important factor in the ride of a bike is probably frame geometry,
followed by the type of bar tape you use.

that's parody, right? tire pressure has absolutely ZERO effect on a
frame's mechanical properties or a wheel's mechanical properties, both of
which are significant factors in ride quality. it may be ok to joke
about this stuff once in a while, but it's dangerous here on r.b.t.
because repetition means people start to believe the most outrageous b.s.
as "fact".


Jim, I hope I'm not misrepresenting others here, but my impression is
that one regular in this newsgroup who makes his living designing and
selling titanium frames (Mark Hickey) and one regular in this newsgroup
who literally wrote the book on bicycle wheels (Jobst Brandt) have both
basically said that given the relative amounts of flex in an inflated
tire (significant by design) and virtually any bike frame or wheel
(magnitudes smaller), the chance of the frame or wheel's "ride quality"
being discernible to any sensible degree is virtually nil.

well, i wouldn't call hickey a "designer". he merely parrots anything
brandt says, has no interest in data acquisition and doesn't know what
modulus is. brandt otoh uses deliberately misleading examples to try to
convince either himself or others that he knows what he's talking about.
if a bike had /no/ tires, it would still react to loading based on its
structure. the fact that loading still ends up being transmitted to the
bike via the tires cannot be avoided - a 200lb person sitting on a bike
still exerts a 200lb load regardless of tire pressure.

I would treat geometry considerations separately: angles and dimensions
affect how a bike feels in interesting ways, but most bikes exist within
fairly small variations on these parameters.

I know you disagree, but I judge the "tire-supremacist" arguments as the
most reasonable explanation. My own experience has been that frame
materials are not very important to bike feel, but I would not put myself
forward as an expert.


i don't know much about tires either, but i know a bit about materials and
their application, and i can say with certainty that the structural
attributes of a bike are /not/ affected by tire pressure. and it's the
structural attributes that affect the way a bike reacts to you riding it.

"Zix" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

Here is in the USA we have a co-op outdoor store chain
called Recreational Equipment Inc (REI) which has its own
brand of bikes called Novara.

I was looking at their Strada racing bike which has an
aluminum frame and Shimano 105 components in 5 places,
and I was curious if anyone had any experience with this
bike. Here is a link:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500865

From a parts perspective it looks good to me (I'm not
a bike mechanic, nor rich) but I don't know about the frame.
I was told by a salesman it was made in Taiwan by the same
manufacturer that makes the Litespeed. I haven't verified that
claim with the customer service people yet.

Can anybody offer any experiences / insights / advice
on whether this might be a good bike to get? It's on sale
locally is why I ask.

Personally I am not sure that an Alu frame is for me,
having experienced for a year the Alu stiffness factor in
my previous bike, but I'm responding to the components
and sale price and trying to be practical.

Thanks.


my 2003 Strada is getting close to 10k miles. i love the bike!it fits great.
im kinda tall with medium to long torso & other bikes were too much of a
scrunch, but get what fits you! when i bought it was the only bike with
105's less that $1K. i wouldnt call it a racing bike. i use mine for
communting on rough streets. the alum frame w/carbon fork is a great combo
(the fork offers a little more give in the front). only real problems are
the spokes were crap & rebuilt the wheels with no more probs there, and
there is no room for a regular fender in front or rear but i use a clip-on
mtb fender in the rear and wear waterproof socks in the front. if you are an
rei member & can wait there is a 20% off any 1 reg priced item sale later
this spring. it's a good time to buy something big.
-alan (seattle)

-also rei seattle main store has great support. they will help fit and align
the cleats etc...

Claire Petersky wrote:

put more shock up through the butt than many peo ple would like

Since you are American, I believe the correct and patriotic expression
is "shock and awe".

Please, do your part to support the President in this time of war.

In article ,
"greggery peccary"
wrote:

"Zix" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

Here is in the USA we have a co-op outdoor store chain
called Recreational Equipment Inc (REI) which has its own
brand of bikes called Novara.

I was looking at their Strada racing bike which has an
aluminum frame and Shimano 105 components in 5 places,
and I was curious if anyone had any experience with this
bike. Here is a link:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500865

From a parts perspective it looks good to me (I'm not
a bike mechanic, nor rich) but I don't know about the frame.
I was told by a salesman it was made in Taiwan by the same
manufacturer that makes the Litespeed. I haven't verified that
claim with the customer service people yet.

Can anybody offer any experiences / insights / advice
on whether this might be a good bike to get? It's on sale
locally is why I ask.

Personally I am not sure that an Alu frame is for me,
having experienced for a year the Alu stiffness factor in
my previous bike, but I'm responding to the components
and sale price and trying to be practical.

Thanks.


my 2003 Strada is getting close to 10k miles. i love the bike!it fits great.
im kinda tall with medium to long torso & other bikes were too much of a
scrunch, but get what fits you! when i bought it was the only bike with
105's less that $1K. i wouldnt call it a racing bike. i use mine for
communting on rough streets. the alum frame w/carbon fork is a great combo
(the fork offers a little more give in the front).

More than what? More than my Raleigh International,
Reynolds 531 fork blades?

[...]

--
Michael Press