value of a custom frame

Per Zix:
I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job

I've been through three custom frames.

The first was a dead loss because I tried to tell the frame builder what to do
and mis-communicated it.

The second is rideable, but no prize - also because I tried to tell the frame
builder too much.

The third was the charm. Basically the frame builder told me to buzz off when I
tried to offer my helpful expertise. I got all in a snit, but when the main
guy charmed me with "Trust us, we've done this before...." I went ahead.

Turned out they saved me from myself and this bike fits my statistical outlier
of a bod better than anything I've ever ridden. In fact, if it disappeared
tonite, I'd be on the phone tomorrow asking them to build *exactly* the same
thing.

Here's the zinger: I'm not sure whether it was the fact that I got a custom
frame that did the trick or that I gave myself over to the builder's
measuring/fitting process and the builder put together something whose
dimensions are just about the same as an off-the-shelf frame.

I lean strongly towards the second explanation except for the steering tube
length - which is longer on my frame than on any pre-built frame.

If that's correct, you might be better served by spending some money on a
professional fit session and then making an educated frame selection from what's
available off-the-shelf.
--
PeteCresswell

Zix wrote:
Hi folks,

There's a local bike frame maker, a small shop,
where they make custom frames for people
based on body dimensions. I once was told by
an obsessive rider that doing this really does help.

I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job
in part because I'm done growing (long ago) and
whatever I buy will most likely fit me like a glove for life.
Plus, if there is someone who can do it well,
it might be nice to support a craftsman.

My question for you all is, what do you feel
(or know) would be an appropriate surcharge
for such a thing. I ask this especially because
for years I've been trying to find the time to take
a welding course ($300 perhaps), so if the answer
were a very large number I would just do that
and start planning to make my own frame.

Thanks.

Appropriate surcharge-
Most builders' surcharges for a custom frame seem to fall in the $300 -
$500 range. If you're looking to spend in the neighborhood of $1000 on
a complete bike, that's not going to leave you much in the budget for
the little extras (like wheels, drivetrain, headset, handlebars, etc...
g) you'll want.
Feasibility of welding your own frame-
If you are an absolute neophyte to welding you probably don't have any
welding equipment. Tack the cost of a welding rig onto the cost of the
welding course and you will have already spent more than the surcharge
but maybe you're planning to weld the frame as part of the course work.
If you are and the school allows students to pick their own unique
projects, you wouldn't *need* to buy the equipment but why learn to
weld unless you plan on acquiring the tools to do so? It sounds to me
like you're just looking for an excuse to learn to weld and to buy a
welding setup. There's nothing wrong with that- there's no such thing
as too many tools, just too small a workshop- but I'd look for another
excuse.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

On 20 Mar 2006 15:16:20 -0800, (Donald Gillies)
wrote:

Quite frankly, a hand-tailored bicycle at $1500 - $2500 is a better
deal than most hand-tailored suits, which won't last half as long !!

I think that the main reason to get a custom bicycle is that you can
get something of much higher quality and durability.

Higher quality than what? I had a custom frame once and it was fine.
I've got a stock steel LeMond and stock OCLV Trek and they are also
fine. Those stock frames work perfectly well (better, in fact than my
custom frame, which had some problems with the seattube sizing).

For people of normal size and normal use, there are plenty of great
stock bikes out there.

might be aesthetic, e.g. if you have an eye for artistry,
If that excites someone, cool for them.

A lot of people feel left out in the cold by the recent trend towards
fast-food / mcdonalds bicycle frames (e.g. eat them up, then pitch
them out, gotta get a new one every 5-10 years, we are under the spell
of the greedy marketeers from bicycle companies! ! !)

I think my LeMond will last nearly forever and the Trek probably too.

My values are not TREK's values, any more,
hence, I am a fish out of water.

WTF? Treks are durable bikes.

JT


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Zix wrote:

There's a local bike frame maker, a small shop,
where they make custom frames for people
based on body dimensions. I once was told by
an obsessive rider that doing this really does help.
I can give you one good reason to buy custom frames: when your body
dimensions aren't average. I, for example, have relative short legs and a
long upper body. a 57Cm C-C frame is high enough for me, but too short, and
a 59 CM is long enough, but too high. a 58 CM is a compromise, but if the
top tube has a big diameter, my knee keeps hitting the top tube. So a
perfect frame for me is a frame with a 58Cm top tube, 57.5 Cm seat tube and
a slightly sloping top tube, which I don't like esthetically.

I had Merckx build me 2 custom frames and these fit. I don't need a 13 CM
stem on those, but can do with 12cm, which makes the bike less nervous.

Greets, Derk

"Zix" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi folks,

There's a local bike frame maker, a small shop,
where they make custom frames for people
based on body dimensions. I once was told by
an obsessive rider that doing this really does help.

I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job
in part because I'm done growing (long ago) and
whatever I buy will most likely fit me like a glove for life.
Plus, if there is someone who can do it well,
it might be nice to support a craftsman.

My question for you all is, what do you feel
(or know) would be an appropriate surcharge
for such a thing. I ask this especially because
for years I've been trying to find the time to take
a welding course ($300 perhaps), so if the answer
were a very large number I would just do that
and start planning to make my own frame.

Thanks.

You can get a custom Gunnar for $1025. If you want full Waterford level
paint job, add $125 to that. Pretty good deal, for a custom frame made in
the US.

Gooserider wrote:
"Zix" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi folks,

There's a local bike frame maker, a small shop,
where they make custom frames for people
based on body dimensions. I once was told by
an obsessive rider that doing this really does help.

I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job
in part because I'm done growing (long ago) and
whatever I buy will most likely fit me like a glove for life.
Plus, if there is someone who can do it well,
it might be nice to support a craftsman.

My question for you all is, what do you feel
(or know) would be an appropriate surcharge
for such a thing. I ask this especially because
for years I've been trying to find the time to take
a welding course ($300 perhaps), so if the answer
were a very large number I would just do that
and start planning to make my own frame.

Thanks.

You can get a custom Gunnar for $1025. If you want full Waterford level
paint job, add $125 to that. Pretty good deal, for a custom frame made in
the US.

Add Davidson. At least one very happy (with process and result) local
owner, who FWIW is a semi-retired woman racer, and one of the best
wheels around. "They gave me exactly what I asked for".

Look at lots of builders, is the usual advice.

A friend is happily riding his homebuilt road fixer, complete with
spray can finish (pretty darn nice looking paint job) and homemade logo
decal. Lotta satisfaction there, and no one else to blame if the
geometry ain't quite right. Brazed joints. Main tubes coulda been
welded, they're lugged/brazed.

I have two CFSE bikes (both bought used, of course). The one that fits
is ex-team issue I got pretty cheap because it apparently didn't fit
anyone else in the parade of folks who came through that maker's little
retail area. The one that just works, I got pretty cheap because the
guy who ordered it decided he didn't like what he'd asked for.
Mentioning: it's a track bike that I've ridden with complete abandon in
match sprints, in spite of the fact that not enough seat post sticks up
out of the frame when it's adjusted for my leg length (tsk tsk, the
shame of it all!).

The one that fits, a road frame, has a long top tube for the seat tube
size (53.5 st, 59.5 tt). Comfortable over (relative) distance, it's a
head-shaker if ridden no-hands. My old steel Tommasini, "square"
dimensions, isn't as comfy to ride, but never has wobbled, and would
work a whole lot better for racing crits if I wanted to take the chance
of folding it up.

"Still awake, Zix?" (All the help you can stand...) --D-y

Zix wrote:
Hi folks,

There's a local bike frame maker, a small shop,
where they make custom frames for people
based on body dimensions. I once was told by
an obsessive rider that doing this really does help.

I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job
in part because I'm done growing (long ago) and
whatever I buy will most likely fit me like a glove for life.
Plus, if there is someone who can do it well,
it might be nice to support a craftsman.

My question for you all is, what do you feel
(or know) would be an appropriate surcharge
for such a thing. I ask this especially because
for years I've been trying to find the time to take
a welding course ($300 perhaps), so if the answer
were a very large number I would just do that
and start planning to make my own frame.

Thanks.

For Moots, $350, For Calfee-$500, for Parlee, $1200, for
Waterford-$0.....

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job
in part because I'm done growing (long ago) and
whatever I buy will most likely fit me like a glove for life.
Plus, if there is someone who can do it well,
it might be nice to support a craftsman.

Ah, but it may *not* fit like a glove for life. People change. What you
prefer today may be different than what works for you five years down the
road. Some people do manage to feel comfortable on a bike set up the exact
same way at 50 they had when 16 (I'm actually one of those), but my
experience is that that's somewhat unusual. Treating bike fit as if it's
this static thing that you can nail perfectly is, in my opinion, an
unrealistic concept (but very oversold). Once you begin tweaking the fit,
where did the advantages to that "custom" geometry go?

I was perfectly happy with my bike when I got it in June.

I sold it half price three months later and was perfectly happy with my
bike when I got it in September.

Then I changed the stem.

Then I changed the handlebars.

Then I changed the handlebars back.

Then I changed the pedals.

Now I'm thinking about lowering the handlebars, and maybe raising the
seat a little.

But I'm perfectly happy with my bike exactly the way it is.

-M

wrote:

I was perfectly happy with my bike when I got it in June.

I sold it half price three months later and was perfectly happy with
my bike when I got it in September.

Then I changed the stem.

Then I changed the handlebars.

Then I changed the handlebars back.

Then I changed the pedals.

Now I'm thinking about lowering the handlebars, and maybe raising the
seat a little.

But I'm perfectly happy with my bike exactly the way it is.

My kind of cyclist! LOL

Bill "inveterate tweaker" S.

Zix wrote:
I don't think my body is especially oddly dimensioned
per se, but I do somewhat feel that if I'm going to
invest in a good bike, costing over US$1000,
I might as well pay something extra for the custom job
in part because I'm done growing (long ago) and
whatever I buy will most likely fit me like a glove for life.

If bike frames were like gloves then "fitting like a glove" might make
some sense... but we aren't stuck with the seat and bars in a
particular position. The seat can easily be raised and lowered a few
inches, and moved fore/aft an inch at least before it looks goofy.
Similarly, handlebar stems come in a wide range of lengths and rises.

"Fitting for life" is also not likely to be true, since your "optimum"
position on the bike will probably evolve as you get more experienced.
If I'd bought a custom frame when I first started riding, I wouldn't
like it so well now.

It is easy to get obsessive about frame size and geometry, but I think
it best to wait until you've been riding awhile... then maybe you'll
know what you want. I somewhat picky about bike fit because I've been
riding a long time... and developed a preference. I used to ride a 58cm
frame... now I have a 56... and I think my next will be a 54. I like to
have the front wheel tucked in as far as possible, with a long stem,
and I've gradually moved my seat back... which means I prefer smaller
frames than what I'd normally be sized for. But the wide range of
adjustibility in the seat and bars makes it easy to get the same body
position on any of these frames... and the small differences in
handling or feel, I'd definitely put in the "esoteric" realm.

So... unless you want something pretty strange, or your body has *very*
odd proportions (and even then most can fit fine on a compact), you
should have no trouble finding a standard frame that fits very well.