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#41
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value of a custom frame
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
And finally, and this does come down a bit to "snob appeal", some people simply want to spend more money. It appeals to them to have something far more expensive, and thus exclusive on the basis of cost alone, than the next person. Penn & Teller, the magicians, have a cable-TV "expose" show called "Bull****!". One recent episode was dedicated to Americans' obsession with "the best". They made a number of points: there is no such thing as "the best", most people wouldn't know good from lousy if you wrapped it in enough hype, and seeking/buying "the best" takes a lot of time and, in the end, makes people less happy. |
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#42
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value of a custom frame
David wrote: OTOH, with a custom frame, you have a bike made *for* you, with input *from* you, painted in the color of *your* choice, free from garish, over-size logos plastered all over the frame, and built with the exact parts of your choice. That's a rather bold statement. In reality, I had been in the industry for so long and had seen some people who bought into the custom bike myth usually ending up hating their bikes. This was true with either inexperienced and experienced riders. Some, ususally-big words\, not in my experience tho. The people who buy into the custom bike myth is usually the same people who strive for perfection. Disagree. Some like the idea of a bicycle frame and then bike made for them, period. Unique, one of a kind, type thing. They don't want to make a single mistake in bike fit and that's understable. $2000 + for a custom bike -- you better like it. It's not a mistake most of us can afford to make. But I think, bike fit is being oversold by a lot of the custom bike makers. Bike fit is the most important thing in a bicycle purchase. Just cuz most bike shops can't do bike fits does not minimize it's importance. MORE important than anything else by a wide margin. No myth. We do current bike fits all day long on people that get 'stock' bikes that are not close to fitting them. They come in cuz it hurts to ride and they are about to take up tennis or golf. In reality, many stock frame makers are now making sizes available for people who usually don't fit the normal mold of things. Custom paint is also being oversold by a lot of makers too. Yes, nice paint job certainly look nice. I remember that in the 80s, colored suits and clothes were the fad at the time. Remember what Don Johnson of Miami Vice wore at the time? Cool then, but pretty cheesy now. What is hit then is not necessarily cool today. If you try wearing 80s wear today, you'll probably be greeted by a lot of strange looks. Yes, cool paint jobs are great to look at, but color is like fashion. What's popular today is old fashion by tommorrow. Yep, a red bicycle today probably was not in fashion in the 80s...huh? We are talking about bicycle paint, not bell bottoms. So what if they buy into this myth that they believe, the $2000 + bike will last them for a lifetime. Most of the time, I see them hibernating in their garage after 5 or so years. The problem is, most custom bikes are made by traditional means and materials. There is nothing wrong with that, except there are mass production bike companies like Guru for instance which also use traditional means to build modern bikes that are lighter, cooler to look at and sometimes provide a nicer ride. ahhhhwe are getting to the bottom of this-lighter and cooler...sorry, not the reason to biuy a bike IMO. 'sometimes' provides a better ride and sometimes, not. Sometimes fits but mosttimes, from most bike shops, does not fit. I had seen way too many people who left their custom bikes in pursuit of those nicer Optimo or Carbone framed bikes with fancy boutique paired spokes wheels. You know, peer pressure in mass riders can sometimes get the best of some of us, plus their riding style and posture may have changed too. Bing, bing, bing, we have a winner. Spoken like a true bike shop guy that sells over the counter, mass produced gadgetry...carbon, paired spokes, all sorts of things that 'may' work if they were designed, assembled better and then fitted to a customer. To me, the key to buying a custom frame is that, it must fit "BETTER" than any available STOCK frame sold in the market today. If it does provide the same fit as a stock frame, then why go custom? See above, I got a custom Mondonico cuz I could. If the custom process is proper, how can it not fit better than a standard bicycle? Stock frame = Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale.....mostly. The bike shops here in the republic that sell these have no idea how to do bike fit. It's the 'stand over, ride around the parking lot, how do ya want to pay for that' type fit...even on bicycles pushing $6000+. The 'stock' bicycle market is and has been in trouble for years. Even the "Lance effect' hasn't changed that. |
#43
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value of a custom frame
On 27 Mar 2006 05:47:03 -0800, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
wrote: The people who buy into the custom bike myth is usually the same people who strive for perfection. Disagree. Some like the idea of a bicycle frame and then bike made for them, period. Unique, one of a kind, type thing. Peter, If the bike is custom designed to be a unique one of a kind type thing, then it's really not a a bike but rather a piece of art readily to be admired don't you think? We are talking about a custom frame that is built to be ridden not mounted on the wall. If the custom frame is designed with a triangular shaped front end, that is not custom. The triangle front end had been around for hundreds of years, proven to be a reliable design. The only thing custom are minor alterations on the basic frame design to address customer's unique requests. But how many customers have unique requests? Probably a lot of probably a few. Would I call that unique? Not really, because in the end, it's just a normal bike with minor custom alterations and a unique paint job and a name engraved on the tube somewhere. Will it be a perfect bike for the job the customer wanted it for to do? Sure it will, because that's what he or she wanted. Will it be saleable in the future after that task is completed? Probably very hard, because what one puts great value on these custom alterations, others won't. Bike fit is the most important thing in a bicycle purchase. Just cuz most bike shops can't do bike fits does not minimize it's importance. MORE important than anything else by a wide margin. No myth. We do current bike fits all day long on people that get 'stock' bikes that are not close to fitting them. They come in cuz it hurts to ride and they are about to take up tennis or golf. It's good that you offer this in your store. We have 2 stores here that do the same free of charge on other stock bikes not sold by them if they are not busy. So, I don't see a reason why people would really need to go custom, unless for some specific tasks and body dimensions. Unfortunately, as you may have indicated, that people buy stock bikes that don't fit them -- they should. Which means, there are shops out there that don't offer these services. The smart ones would obviously come to your store after a painful hiatus with their bikes. But do all of them come to seek your expertise? Yep, a red bicycle today probably was not in fashion in the 80s...huh? We are talking about bicycle paint, not bell bottoms. I need of a customer who was sold on a custom red Dion tri bike. This is a custom bike. We saw the whole fit was totally wrong. It was made to ride with a rearward seating position -- tribikes usually are forward seating based! She could have been well-fitted with a Felt S32 with some minor alterations and be well with it. Will cost half too. But you know, she saw the video how custom bikes are unique and how nice they ride. In the end, it all comes to the builder. How can a builder be good at building a perfect tri bike, race bike, mountain bike and a touring bike. You need to be good to understand the finer points of what specific people need if you have been doing all of these things correct? Stock frame = Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale.....mostly. The bike shops here in the republic that sell these have no idea how to do bike fit. It's the 'stand over, ride around the parking lot, how do ya want to pay for that' type fit...even on bicycles pushing $6000+. The 'stock' bicycle market is and has been in trouble for years. Even the "Lance effect' hasn't changed that. We are lucky to have 2 stores that sell these stock frames and offer proper frame fitting. One is a road store and another a tri specific store. And as I said earlier, some towns and cities don't have good stores to offer good fitting, so what are you going to do? David. |
#44
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value of a custom frame
And finally, and this does come down a bit to "snob appeal", some people
simply want to spend more money. It appeals to them to have something far more expensive, and thus exclusive on the basis of cost alone, than the next person. Penn & Teller, the magicians, have a cable-TV "expose" show called "Bull****!". One recent episode was dedicated to Americans' obsession with "the best". They made a number of points: there is no such thing as "the best", most people wouldn't know good from lousy if you wrapped it in enough hype, and seeking/buying "the best" takes a lot of time and, in the end, makes people less happy. Some people get more involved in the process than the use of whatever it is they're looking into. A good example of a total time-waster for me is flying. I research everything this-way, that-way, backward & forward each time I fly, to make sure I get the best-possible (there's that "best" word!) seat. Fairly easy if it's just me flying, not so easy when it's with the family (since I'm the only one with status on an airline). Still, I'll spend a good amount of time on flyertalk.com, seatguru.com and ual.com checking everything out in advance, and then spending yet more time making sure my seats didn't change due to a "sweep." All for a flight that might last typically 4-5 hours. At most. But getting back to the idea of a "best"- that's a relative thing, which will be something different for different people. That doesn't mean the concept is invalid, it just means that it's not a universal absolute. Penn & Teller can make a comedy show out of it, but that doesn't mean people can't appreciate something that's better (or more appropriate, for them) than something else. The reason people can't, in most cases, is because they're not trained in what to look for. They learn from commercials, because that's their primary exposure to product. Or they look to the Internet, which can almost be worse, because opinions are so diverse and easy to find that you can support just about any belief you have and present "proof" from the Internet. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA "Peter Cole" wrote in message . .. Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: And finally, and this does come down a bit to "snob appeal", some people simply want to spend more money. It appeals to them to have something far more expensive, and thus exclusive on the basis of cost alone, than the next person. Penn & Teller, the magicians, have a cable-TV "expose" show called "Bull****!". One recent episode was dedicated to Americans' obsession with "the best". They made a number of points: there is no such thing as "the best", most people wouldn't know good from lousy if you wrapped it in enough hype, and seeking/buying "the best" takes a lot of time and, in the end, makes people less happy. |
#45
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value of a custom frame
Stock frame = Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale.....mostly. The bike
shops here in the republic that sell these have no idea how to do bike fit. It's the 'stand over, ride around the parking lot, how do ya want to pay for that' type fit...even on bicycles pushing $6000+. Obviously (or perhaps not?), not all shops selling the major lines are clueless about bike fit. I know of a number who take great care to properly set up bikes for their customers... and I know of many who don't. Is there truly no dealer who you know personally who sells one of the major bike lines and does a good job with fitting people? The 'stock' bicycle market is and has been in trouble for years. Even the "Lance effect' hasn't changed that. The "Lance effect" likely has no effect whatsoever on people getting properly fit for road bikes. Might, in fact, have had the opposite, as more dealers decided to sell road bikes, without any prior expertise in doing so, just because they're the "in" thing. It's likely that the dealers who have been selling road bikes for a very long time do a better job with fit than the newbies looking to get into the latest craze. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA "Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message oups.com... David wrote: OTOH, with a custom frame, you have a bike made *for* you, with input *from* you, painted in the color of *your* choice, free from garish, over-size logos plastered all over the frame, and built with the exact parts of your choice. That's a rather bold statement. In reality, I had been in the industry for so long and had seen some people who bought into the custom bike myth usually ending up hating their bikes. This was true with either inexperienced and experienced riders. Some, ususally-big words\, not in my experience tho. The people who buy into the custom bike myth is usually the same people who strive for perfection. Disagree. Some like the idea of a bicycle frame and then bike made for them, period. Unique, one of a kind, type thing. They don't want to make a single mistake in bike fit and that's understable. $2000 + for a custom bike -- you better like it. It's not a mistake most of us can afford to make. But I think, bike fit is being oversold by a lot of the custom bike makers. Bike fit is the most important thing in a bicycle purchase. Just cuz most bike shops can't do bike fits does not minimize it's importance. MORE important than anything else by a wide margin. No myth. We do current bike fits all day long on people that get 'stock' bikes that are not close to fitting them. They come in cuz it hurts to ride and they are about to take up tennis or golf. In reality, many stock frame makers are now making sizes available for people who usually don't fit the normal mold of things. Custom paint is also being oversold by a lot of makers too. Yes, nice paint job certainly look nice. I remember that in the 80s, colored suits and clothes were the fad at the time. Remember what Don Johnson of Miami Vice wore at the time? Cool then, but pretty cheesy now. What is hit then is not necessarily cool today. If you try wearing 80s wear today, you'll probably be greeted by a lot of strange looks. Yes, cool paint jobs are great to look at, but color is like fashion. What's popular today is old fashion by tommorrow. Yep, a red bicycle today probably was not in fashion in the 80s...huh? We are talking about bicycle paint, not bell bottoms. So what if they buy into this myth that they believe, the $2000 + bike will last them for a lifetime. Most of the time, I see them hibernating in their garage after 5 or so years. The problem is, most custom bikes are made by traditional means and materials. There is nothing wrong with that, except there are mass production bike companies like Guru for instance which also use traditional means to build modern bikes that are lighter, cooler to look at and sometimes provide a nicer ride. ahhhhwe are getting to the bottom of this-lighter and cooler...sorry, not the reason to biuy a bike IMO. 'sometimes' provides a better ride and sometimes, not. Sometimes fits but mosttimes, from most bike shops, does not fit. I had seen way too many people who left their custom bikes in pursuit of those nicer Optimo or Carbone framed bikes with fancy boutique paired spokes wheels. You know, peer pressure in mass riders can sometimes get the best of some of us, plus their riding style and posture may have changed too. Bing, bing, bing, we have a winner. Spoken like a true bike shop guy that sells over the counter, mass produced gadgetry...carbon, paired spokes, all sorts of things that 'may' work if they were designed, assembled better and then fitted to a customer. To me, the key to buying a custom frame is that, it must fit "BETTER" than any available STOCK frame sold in the market today. If it does provide the same fit as a stock frame, then why go custom? See above, I got a custom Mondonico cuz I could. If the custom process is proper, how can it not fit better than a standard bicycle? Stock frame = Trek, Specialized, Giant, Cannondale.....mostly. The bike shops here in the republic that sell these have no idea how to do bike fit. It's the 'stand over, ride around the parking lot, how do ya want to pay for that' type fit...even on bicycles pushing $6000+. The 'stock' bicycle market is and has been in trouble for years. Even the "Lance effect' hasn't changed that. |
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