They are whingeing about petrol prices again!

On 20/11/2011 15:53, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 14:50, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 13:01, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:

... I have for a long time considered that driving to work is a
costly waste of resources...

...so you don't bother going?

No need. I can earn a living not leaving the house :-)
Those who do “have” to drive to work are mugs. They will spend a good part of
their income on the means to get them there. They are also being further
conned in that the cost of travel to work is not tax deductible so they pay
tax on earning the money to pay for the means to get them to work and … pay tax.

This is all their own fault, is it?

You remind me a bit of one-time uk.transport poster Conor (a lorry driver)
who used to insist that car-drivers were "****wits" because car speedometers
are more optimistic than lorry speedometers.

Yes... really. The issue of what one can do about it didn't seem to occur to him.

And the issue of the average citizen being a mere observant victim of the tax
regime doesn't seem to have occurred to you.

For the high earners, this is not a problem as they can afford it. But it
seems to me utterly absurd for low to moderate earners, part-timers etc. to
run a car to get them to work, especially if the commute is any distance and
expensive. If they could do the journey by human power they would be
considerable better off. Their income requirement would be less, their health
improved and their overall standard of living improved too.

Cars do have other uses outside the world of work.

Or so I've heard, anyway.

On 20/11/2011 15:59, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 15:43, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 14:49, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 12:58, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 10:18, Mr. Benn wrote:
"Dave - Cyclists VOR" wrote in message
...

On 20/11/2011 08:50, Doug wrote:
On 18-Nov-2011, Simon wrote:

On 18/11/2011 14:48, Simon Mason wrote:
On Nov 17, 7:33 am, Simon
wrote:
On 17/11/2011 04:05, Simon Mason wrote:



On Nov 16, 11:46 pm, wrote:
On Nov 16, 6:53 pm, wrote:

Doug wrote:
Fortunately this hardly affects cyclists at all.

so why are you mentioning it here?

"just about everybody on this group have said they own a car."

I am not moaning about high petrol prices as
a) I work for an oil company.
b) I get a staff discount c) I hardly ever drive anyway.

Win win win.

Higher prices, less traffic!

--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.- Hide quoted
text
-

- Show quoted text -

My fuel bills are going through the roof due to me driving Mrs M
out
to all of these hills.
I've just put another 70 quids worth in. :-(


It does not go far, I spend approx £80 a month on diesel. Still I’d
rather pay £160 per month and see less traffic on the roads.

Of course that is the undoubted benefit of higher fuel prices so the
higher
the better. Lets get all those frivolous drivers off our roads so
that
serious road users can benefit. I bet the resulting lack of
congestion
would
save on fuel costs in the end.

Still waiting for the penny to drop....
=========================================

It will when he realises that increases in food prices are largely due
to increased transportation costs.

Food is very cheap in the UK. It should be a lot more.

Should it?
Why do you say that UK living standards should be reduced?

It might have a positive effect on obesity rates if people were not
able to
afford to gorge themselves to such a point where they are a health risk.

Commodity prices would have to rise a LOT before that would happen.

In effect, real incomes would have to be similar to what they were in
the late 1940s or early 1950s (the last time that food was rationed by
price, as well as by the state).

Is that the sort of effect you were thinking of?

Cheap food equals fat people. Look at the US.

I have.

In fact, food prices in the USA are not all that much more than here.
OK, steak (and similar) is a cheap commodity there, but eating out is no
cheaper than it is here. But you DO get a lot more on your plate. Too
much for me, certainly.

Expensive food equals healthier people, up to a point.

Can you think of a real world example?

You cannot compare just the price alone. Price and affordability are
relative to income and wealth. Food prices in the US are cheap. The UK
is less so. In much of Europe, food prices (in relation to incomes) are
high even though the actual purchase price may be about the same. It
seems though that The UK, US and other wealthier nations have an obesity
problem.

--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 12:58:01 +0000, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote:

On 20/11/2011 10:18, Mr. Benn wrote:


snip


It will when he realises that increases in food prices are largely due
to increased transportation costs.

Food is very cheap in the UK. It should be a lot more. If transportation
costs were higher, there would be less unnecessary transportation of them.

Eeeer - yep .... of course.

I didn't realise that you had a degree in "economics".

I thought that yours was in "envy" - and a first class at that.

On 20/11/2011 16:03, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 15:53, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 14:50, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 13:01, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:

... I have for a long time considered that driving to work is a
costly waste of resources...

...so you don't bother going?

No need. I can earn a living not leaving the house :-)
Those who do “have” to drive to work are mugs. They will spend a good
part of
their income on the means to get them there. They are also being further
conned in that the cost of travel to work is not tax deductible so
they pay
tax on earning the money to pay for the means to get them to work and
… pay tax.

This is all their own fault, is it?

They took the job.

You remind me a bit of one-time uk.transport poster Conor (a lorry
driver) who used to insist that car-drivers were "****wits" because car
speedometers are more optimistic than lorry speedometers.

Yes... really. The issue of what one can do about it didn't seem to
occur to him.

And the issue of the average citizen being a mere observant victim of
the tax regime doesn't seem to have occurred to you.

There are always choices.

For the high earners, this is not a problem as they can afford it. But it
seems to me utterly absurd for low to moderate earners, part-timers
etc. to
run a car to get them to work, especially if the commute is any
distance and
expensive. If they could do the journey by human power they would be
considerable better off. Their income requirement would be less, their
health
improved and their overall standard of living improved too.

Cars do have other uses outside the world of work.

Or so I've heard, anyway.


--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 07:13:33 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

On Nov 20, 1:01*pm, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote:

Agreed.
Fuel is far too cheap - if people can afford to sit in traffic for an
hour like I was the other night doing 8-9 mpg, then the fuel taxes
need to be raised in order to force people to consider more sensible
alternatives. I certainly won't be driving to work today, that's for
sure.

Me neither, I have for a long time considered that driving to work is a
costly waste of resources.


Hopefully, when Mrs M gets fit enough, we will only really need the
car to go on our 3000 mile summer holidays and not for commuting/
shopping anymore.


How are the pounds dropping off her?

They are dropping off her - , aren't they?

Most odd - no progress report.


--
"You get a real feeling of elation just for the simple act of cycling past the local hospital
where there are people of my age who have abused their bodies and suffered all sorts of ailments"

Simon Mason

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 06:44:26 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

On Nov 20, 12:50*pm, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote:

ISTM bizarre that in this day and age we have old folk frightened to put
their heating on in the winter because they cannot afford the fuel
bills, and we have teenagers and single mums on benefits, running around
in cars.


We had a young single mum in the paper the other day on benefits who
was moaning about the car high parking prices outside of the dole
office where she had to sign on now and again.

The world has gone mad.


It is a good job that you are sane then.

--
"You get a real feeling of elation just for the simple act of cycling past the local hospital
where there are people of my age who have abused their bodies and suffered all sorts of ailments"

Simon Mason

On 20/11/2011 15:59, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 15:43, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 14:49, JNugent wrote:
On 20/11/2011 12:58, Simon Weaseltemper wrote:
On 20/11/2011 10:18, Mr. Benn wrote:
"Dave - Cyclists VOR" wrote in message
...

On 20/11/2011 08:50, Doug wrote:
On 18-Nov-2011, Simon wrote:

On 18/11/2011 14:48, Simon Mason wrote:
On Nov 17, 7:33 am, Simon
wrote:
On 17/11/2011 04:05, Simon Mason wrote:



On Nov 16, 11:46 pm, wrote:
On Nov 16, 6:53 pm, wrote:

Doug wrote:
Fortunately this hardly affects cyclists at all.

so why are you mentioning it here?

"just about everybody on this group have said they own a car."

I am not moaning about high petrol prices as
a) I work for an oil company.
b) I get a staff discount c) I hardly ever drive anyway.

Win win win.

Higher prices, less traffic!

--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.- Hide quoted
text
-

- Show quoted text -

My fuel bills are going through the roof due to me driving Mrs M
out
to all of these hills.
I've just put another 70 quids worth in. :-(


It does not go far, I spend approx £80 a month on diesel. Still I’d
rather pay £160 per month and see less traffic on the roads.

Of course that is the undoubted benefit of higher fuel prices so the
higher
the better. Lets get all those frivolous drivers off our roads so
that
serious road users can benefit. I bet the resulting lack of
congestion
would
save on fuel costs in the end.

Still waiting for the penny to drop....
=========================================

It will when he realises that increases in food prices are largely due
to increased transportation costs.

Food is very cheap in the UK. It should be a lot more.

Should it?
Why do you say that UK living standards should be reduced?

It might have a positive effect on obesity rates if people were not
able to
afford to gorge themselves to such a point where they are a health risk.

Commodity prices would have to rise a LOT before that would happen.

In effect, real incomes would have to be similar to what they were in
the late 1940s or early 1950s (the last time that food was rationed by
price, as well as by the state).

Interestingly, during the rationing of food, when red meat, butter,
cheese, lard, sugar etc were in short supply, but fish & vegetables were
easily available - heart disease tripled.

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University

On Nov 18, 3:33*pm, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote:
On 18/11/2011 14:48, Simon Mason wrote:





On Nov 17, 7:33 am, Simon
wrote:
On 17/11/2011 04:05, Simon Mason wrote:

On Nov 16, 11:46 pm, *wrote:
On Nov 16, 6:53 pm, *wrote:

Doug wrote:
Fortunately this hardly affects cyclists at all.

so why are you mentioning it here?

"just about everybody on this group have said they own a car."

I am not moaning about high petrol prices as
a) I work for an oil company.
b) I get a staff discount c) I hardly ever drive anyway.

Win win win.

Higher prices, less traffic!

--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My fuel bills are going through the roof due to me driving Mrs M out
to all of these hills.
I've just put another 70 quids worth in. :-(

It does not go far, I spend approx £80 a month on diesel. Still I’d
rather pay £160 per month and see less traffic on the roads.

--
Simon
For personal replies, please use my reply-to address.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I forgot to say that before the personal training programme got under
way, 70 quid used to last at least 2 weeks.
Still, the 10p a litre off Sainsbury's petrol voucher will come in
handy for once.

--
Simon Mason

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:31:37 -0800 (PST), Simon Mason
wrote:

snip

Joining this group back in '97 was the catalyst,
so it is no wonder I have so much to thank urc for and work hard to
keep it going and on track.


Yes - and we really do appreciate your efforts.

Well done - and keep up the good work.

The group would be a totally different place without you :-)

--
"You get a real feeling of elation just for the simple act of cycling past the local hospital
where there are people of my age who have abused their bodies and suffered all sorts of ailments"

Simon Mason

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:49:02 -0000, "Mrcheerful" wrote:

Simon Mason wrote:
On Nov 20, 3:53 pm, Simon Weaseltemper
wrote:

For the high earners, this is not a problem as they can afford it.
But it seems to me utterly absurd for low to moderate earners,
part-timers etc. to run a car to get them to work, especially if the
commute is any distance and expensive. If they could do the journey
by human power they would be considerable better off. Their income
requirement would be less, their health improved and their overall
standard of living improved too.

Totally agree.

Since I ditched driving to work in 1997, I have never looked back.
I have saved around 18000 quid in petrol alone which is the cost of a
decent car.
That is before tyres and other consumables are taken into
consideration.

The biggest effect is on my health though, I have below normal blood
pressure (when measure it properly :-) am 6ft 1in and under 12 stone
plus I sailed through my BUPA full "MOT" recently. Plus every ride
home is a pure joy and totally unlike the misery of a drive home which
I experienced the other evening which took twice as long as the same
journey on my bike. Joining this group back in '97 was the catalyst,
so it is no wonder I have so much to thank urc for and work hard to
keep it going and on track.

good job people like me keep it going then.



I found that very abusive - I will have to report you to your ISP and all other
relevant authorities.