A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The Four Horsemen



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old November 9th 13, 12:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default The Four Horsemen

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 10:54:48 -0800 (PST), Dan O
wrote:


I didn't even know it was a "thing"; I thought I had made it up. Well,
I knew it was a patently obvious (to me) fundamental cognitive concept,
but I *thought* I had pulled it together as a label from discrete words
in my vocabulary; dunno maybe I heard it somewhere in my peripheral,
er... awareness. I suppose I may have been exposed to the term in EMR
training.

Anyway, you guys know I've always said situational awareness is head
and shoulders (and then some... hell, it's virtually *everything*) of
safe bicycling in traffic. I found the Wikipedia page for it today.
Cool stuff. Will start with the definition the

Situation Awareness (SA):

"the perception of elements in the environment within a volume of time
and space, the comprehension of their meaning, and the projection of
their status in the near future,"

That's pretty good. To establish ~on-topic:

"... perception of the environment critical to decision-makers in...
complex tasks such as... bicycle."

A couple of other interesting notes:

"One with an adept sense of situation awareness generally has a high
degree of knowledge with respect to inputs and outputs of a system,
i.e. an innate "feel" for situations, people, and events that play out
due to variables the subject can control."

I wouldn't emphasize the variables that I can control, because those
I cannot are equally important, though those I can control do fall in
for special treatment. It's fuzzy, though, as one little controlling
action changes everything, including *relationship* with the things one
cannot control.

I agree with the characterization "innate 'feel'".

"Situation awareness has been recognized as a critical, yet often
elusive, foundation for successful decision-making across a broad range
of complex and dynamic systems... "

I agree with the characterization "elusive".

As for Bike School:

"... well-defined, highly-organized yet dynamic knowledge structures
developed over time from experience... "

I agree that SA depends on experience, and there is no substitute.

"... individuals vary in their ability to acquire SA; thus, simply
providing the same system and training will not ensure similar SA across
different individuals. Endsley's model shows how SA "provides the
primary basis for subsequent decision making and performance in the
operation of complex, dynamic systems"

Wow, it's quite an article. I've only just skimmed yet. Here's an
interesting gotcha:

"... unaware of information they do not know (the "unknown unknowns")."

But exactly the same holds true for Bike School graduates.

I liked the reference at Wikipedia about air combat dogfighting
"strategy... to "get inside" your opponent's OODA [observe, orient,
decide, act] loop". That's exactly what smart racing is to me; and I
use this in ordinary traffic, too - except that it can be inverse here
in that the objective is not (usually ;-) to outwit an opponent - maybe
even extended to tricking them by messing with *their* SA - but in
ordinary transportation the objective is more usually to feed their OODA
loop in ways that enhance getting along together. (The Four Horsemen
themselves are kind of inverse here in that it's not their presence, but
rather their absence, that is ominous.)


But of course aircraft don't "dog fight any more. Now they are
vectored in by ground, or sometimes Airborne radar until the on board
targeting system takes over and directs the pilot into missile range,
then notifies the pilot when a missile is locked on and will even
launch the missile if required.

Dog fights at modern interceptor speeds are impossible as the data
processing ability of the aircraft controller is too low and the data
processor often fails during high G maneuvers. :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.
Ads
  #12  
Old November 9th 13, 04:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
davethedave[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 602
Default The Four Horsemen

On Fri, 08 Nov 2013 17:44:56 -0800, Dan wrote:

snip

Beyond just riding through the ditch and over the berm onto the parking
lot and around the back between the dumpster and the downspout, the
rider's attitude factors in what they'll get out of it. Sure the first
time through some new experience even the most curious adventurer ought
to exercise caution, but once he'd felt the experience of doing it, the
fledgling bike ninja will go, "Bonzai!!!" at the next opportunity where
his experience is applicable.



I'm not sure shouting "Small tree!!!" will help the fledgling bike ninja
in his or her quest for adrenaline rushes.
--
davethedave
  #13  
Old November 9th 13, 06:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,793
Default The Four Horsemen

its take the lane

or get out of their way...


pick
  #14  
Old November 9th 13, 08:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 896
Default The Four Horsemen

datakoll writes:

its take the lane

or get out of their way...


pick


And of course I always do... pick.

Generally, it's best to be out of their way - unless there's a reason
to be in their way. There's the issue: What is reasonably necessary
for one bicyclist is not for another. And that's just bicyclists -
what is reasonable to a bicyclist may not be to the motorist, who has
a very different set of incentives. Heck, many (most?) motorists don't
think riding a bicycle for transportation is reasonable!

And then Rules of the Road factor. The Rules of the Road are mostly
geared for motor traffic. When I do something that is altogether
reasonable but deviates from the Rules of the Road, motorists observing
this think it's unreasonable (because they do not share my incentives
and perspective, but they nonetheless "put themselves in my shoes" to
judge my actions... and their perspective in this little foray into my
shoes is that *they* wouldn't ride a bicycle on the road at all - duh -
that's why they're in a car; and if they *did* ride a bicycle on the
road they'd damn sure stay out of the way of cars.) So my "violation"
of the Rules of the Road - even though it had nothing whatsoever to do
with getting in their way, and completely without trespass on anyone
else, makes me a Bad Person in their mind, deserving of ill regard,
and they proceed to treat me so _even in violation of the Rules of the
Road_ (in their ~"defense", they often don't even know the rules they're
violating, because they pertain to cooperation with bicyclists which is
simply an abstract, foreign concept to them and they can't understand
how this issue actually even exists because why in the hell would anyone
think riding a bicycle on the road for transportation is a reasonable
thing to do... but they feel justified anyway because it is not them who
is the aforementioned Bad Guy).

I use the lane whenever it suits me, but get out of the way of others,
unless on balance (there's that word :-) the situation (and that one)
reasonably calls for me to use the lane anyway, in which case we need
to apply the Rules of the Road and Social Interaction (it would be nice
if they have Situational Awareness of e.g. the broken glass on the
shoulder or in the bike lane or whatever my "reason" is for needing to
"take" the lane, but they generally don't - at which point Monderman's
wisdom - "When Grandma steps into the road you stop, because that's what
decent human beings do" - should kick in. (Okay, I'm no Grandma, but I
*am* the more vulnerable road user).

As each individual bicyclist's idea of what is reasonable can vary, I
do tend to defer more and tolerate the less than ideal shoulder or bike
lane or whatever ~reasonable option will allow me to get out of their
way, when other bicyclists would never consider it reasonable and demand
the lane (which is their right and no mistake) - in part because, as I've
said, I'm bound to pull some **** any minute now, and even though I'm
not going to need their cooperation for it, it just wouldn't be cool at
all to set the stage with a context of, "This according to the Rules of
the Road".

Know what I mean?
  #15  
Old November 9th 13, 08:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 896
Default The Four Horsemen

Dan writes:

datakoll writes:

its take the lane

or get out of their way...


pick


And of course I always do... pick.

Generally, it's best to be out of their way - unless there's a reason
to be in their way. There's the issue: What is reasonably necessary
for one bicyclist is not for another. And that's just bicyclists -
what is reasonable to a bicyclist may not be to the motorist, who has
a very different set of incentives. Heck, many (most?) motorists don't
think riding a bicycle for transportation is reasonable!

And then Rules of the Road factor. The Rules of the Road are mostly
geared for motor traffic. When I do something that is altogether
reasonable but deviates from the Rules of the Road, motorists observing
this think it's unreasonable (because they do not share my incentives
and perspective, but they nonetheless "put themselves in my shoes" to
judge my actions... and their perspective in this little foray into my
shoes is that *they* wouldn't ride a bicycle on the road at all - duh -
that's why they're in a car; and if they *did* ride a bicycle on the
road they'd damn sure stay out of the way of cars.) So my "violation"
of the Rules of the Road - even though it had nothing whatsoever to do
with getting in their way, and completely without trespass on anyone
else, makes me a Bad Person in their mind, deserving of ill regard,
and they proceed to treat me so _even in violation of the Rules of the
Road_ (in their ~"defense", they often don't even know the rules they're
violating, because they pertain to cooperation with bicyclists which is
simply an abstract, foreign concept to them and they can't understand
how this issue actually even exists because why in the hell would anyone
think riding a bicycle on the road for transportation is a reasonable
thing to do... but they feel justified anyway because it is not them who
is the aforementioned Bad Guy).

I use the lane whenever it suits me, but get out of the way of others,
unless on balance (there's that word :-) the situation (and that one)
reasonably calls for me to use the lane anyway, in which case we need
to apply the Rules of the Road and Social Interaction (it would be nice
if they have Situational Awareness of e.g. the broken glass on the
shoulder or in the bike lane or whatever my "reason" is for needing to
"take" the lane, but they generally don't - at which point Monderman's
wisdom - "When Grandma steps into the road you stop, because that's what
decent human beings do" - should kick in. (Okay, I'm no Grandma, but I
*am* the more vulnerable road user).

As each individual bicyclist's idea of what is reasonable can vary, I
do tend to defer more and tolerate the less than ideal shoulder or bike
lane or whatever ~reasonable option will allow me to get out of their
way, when other bicyclists would never consider it reasonable and demand
the lane (which is their right and no mistake) - in part because, as I've
said, I'm bound to pull some **** any minute now, and even though I'm
not going to need their cooperation for it, it just wouldn't be cool at
all to set the stage with a context of, "This according to the Rules of
the Road".

Know what I mean?


Look, *most* motorists are pretty reasonable and nice - with the
"Grandma steps out... " - at least SA enough that there *might* be
broken glass or something in the bike lane and that I may have a
good reason for taking the lane but they'll be nice even if they
don't know what it could be. But there are (more than) enough who
aren't so nice.

Good separate facilites take the bicyclists out of the motorist's
way most of the time. Motorists would then, I'd think, be more
inclined to appreciate the *occasional* need to share. But
certain bicyclists really like "controlling the situation", and
therefor can't abide the thought of a separate facility - even
if it's quite a lovely one - because it takes away their power to
assert control, so they rationalize all kinds of arguments - trotting
out or even making up examples of bad facilites in order to damn the
very idea of them.
  #16  
Old November 9th 13, 09:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 896
Default The Four Horsemen

Dan writes:

Rules of the Road.

This is of course a huge, sprawling topic, of utmost importance to many
(most) independent travelers; but my coverage here will be short.

The Rules of the Road greatly affect Situational Awareness, because it
*strongly* influences what other road users are *apt* to do. It does
not constrain what is possible, but it heavily drives probability. (The
SA rider still needs to pay attention - to get inside the head of others
and consider how "ruled" they are by the Rules.)

The Rules of the Road - in The United States of America, at least - are
almost entirely geared for automobile traffic, so they are often the
proverbial round hole for the square peg of a bicyclist. But wait! The
Rules of the Road (pretty much) *only* apply to the road, which it but a
very small part of the bicyclist's landscape :-)

Golly I guess that's about all I have to say about this (for now),
except that (and we'll get into this with the other closely related
Horseman, Social Interaction) certain unwritten fundamental rules are
always in effect.


This just in:

"The News also accompanied officers of the Special Constabulary, who
have been tasked with targeting cyclists flouting traffic laws in a
massive blitz."
  #17  
Old November 9th 13, 09:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 896
Default The Four Horsemen

Dan writes:

Sir Ridesalot writes:

snip


I believe it was Quakers who when building wooden ships used square pegs in round holes because that stopped the peg from twisting loose in use. So, sometimes even a square peg in a round hole is useful.


That is very profound and at the same time quite practical.
I *like* it! Thanks!


"Keep Portland Weird!"
  #18  
Old November 9th 13, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 896
Default The Four Horsemen

Dan writes:

datakoll writes:

THE HORSEMEN ARE HERE....

PROB IS 'situational' means you vs them in the bicycle environment.


Yes, problem(s). Otherwise what's there to say?

What we have are mixed modes with greatly different incentives.
Prblems ensue. (It's what separate facilities address.)

Itsnot really situational more end game.


Of course!

Situational implies a give and take, a 'good' balance.


Sorry to argue, but "situational" only implies a situation.

And yes, I'll agree strongly that balance is key.

Here there is no balance.


But there is. There is.

SA is simply the first part - knowing what's going on and
what it means. From there you get into consideration and
Social Interaction and... "Bonzai!!!"

I *often* back off from my "inclination". Often.

But the end game will be what it will be. You can frustrate
a person, but inside them is a locomotive that will not be
frustrated - one way or another.


Well, I'll admit to getting way out of balance... but it
all balances out in the end game.


Bonzai!

That is, posing as a 'road warrior' is self destructive.


Yes. True. But believe me when I say that I am more the
real deal than poseur.


I said Yes, True, because I see the self-destruction in taking
that perspective. But what's the alternative? Toeing the line?
  #19  
Old November 10th 13, 01:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,793
Default The Four Horsemen


http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/23...2b63029f46.jpg
  #20  
Old November 10th 13, 03:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 896
Default The Four Horsemen

datakoll writes:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/23...2b63029f46.jpg


http://gavinfrye.com/wp-content/uplo...arning-for.jpg
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stinking Horsemen! [email protected] Techniques 3 March 30th 10 12:52 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.