Wheel truing

hello,
While i have a general idea how to true a wheel,i take too long.
I need to know:
what is the first step,
when i true for lateral runout,how do i keep from getting it too much out of
round,
Basically ,i want to know a step by step how-to.with an explanation of why .
t.i.a.

Antonio Tonzie writes:

While I have a general idea how to true a wheel, I take too long. I
need to know what the first step is. When I true for lateral
runout, how do I keep from getting it too much out of round.
Basically, I want to know a step by step how-to with an explanation
of why. t.i.a.

Roundness is the more difficult parameter when truing so if that
starts out alright, then always adjust lateral trueness by loosening
one side and tightening the other about the same amount. If the spoke
in question is conspicuously loose then just tighten that one.

When all is straight, then tighten the wheel by giving every spoke
nipple a half turn and see where you are. If you have a good library
nearby or a well stocked bicycle shop book shelf you can find a book
that describes this in more than enough detail... with pictures.

Quite aside from all that, I don't know what sort of wheels you have.
If they are mod 16-paired-spoke wheels, forget it. Low spoke could
wheels require a fixture to properly tighten their spokes.

Jobst Brandt

Antonio wrote:

Basically, i want to know a step by step how-to.with an explanation of why .

See:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/books.html#brandt

and

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#tensioning

Art Harris

Antonio wrote:
hello,
While i have a general idea how to true a wheel,i take too long.
I need to know:
what is the first step,

Go to Velopress or Google, Find Jobst Brandt's or Gerd Scraener's book,
read.....


when i true for lateral runout,how do i keep from getting it too much out of
round,
Basically ,i want to know a step by step how-to.with an explanation of why .
t.i.a.

Go to Velopress or Google, Find Jobst Brandt's or Gerd Scraener's book,
read.....


Gerd Shraner's (note the corrected spelling) book is called The Art of
Wheelbuilding: A Bench Reference for Neophytes

wrote in message
...
Quite aside from all that, I don't know what sort of wheels you have.
If they are mod 16-paired-spoke wheels, forget it. Low spoke could
wheels require a fixture to properly tighten their spokes.

Jobst Brandt

Jobst,
If you can find the time, could you elaborate on that fixture notion a bit?
That is new to me.
Thanks,
Blake

Blake Paton writes:

Quite aside from all that, I don't know what sort of wheels you
have. If they are mod 16-paired-spoke wheels, forget it. Low
spoke could wheels require a fixture to properly tighten their
spokes.

Jobst, If you can find the time, could you elaborate on that fixture
notion a bit? That is new to me.

Spoke tension for 16 spokes must be so high that thread torque will
twist off spokes, especially with flat spokes, that have no more
torsional rigidity than "the largest inscribed circular cross
section", a rule that is not understood by many designers in
bicycling. Tension must be high enough that supporting loads, by
standing on the bottom spokes, does not make them become slack under
compression. For this reason, pressure boxes are used to support the
hub and displace it laterally with respect to rim center while each
side in sequence is trued to final tension. This is also how these
wheels are stress relieved, by overloading one side at a time. In
spite of these methods, spokes still become slack on enough road
irregularities that spoke nipples are gooped with some adhesive to
prevent unscrewing.

All this for the vanity of those who believe bicycling is more
enjoyable if only there were fewer spokes... fewer than in my
neighbor's wheels.

Jobst Brandt

wrote:
Blake Paton writes:


Quite aside from all that, I don't know what sort of wheels you
have. If they are mod 16-paired-spoke wheels, forget it. Low
spoke could wheels require a fixture to properly tighten their
spokes.


Jobst, If you can find the time, could you elaborate on that fixture
notion a bit? That is new to me.


Spoke tension for 16 spokes must be so high that thread torque will
twist off spokes, especially with flat spokes,

eh? so how come the tension specified for my 16 spoke shimano r540's
are max 1200N?

http://www.shimano.com.au/publish/co...01_r540_si.pdf

a standard 32 spoke wheel and mavic open pro is 1100N. did shimano fail
to consult you on how increasing spoke tension increases wheel strength?

that have no more
torsional rigidity than "the largest inscribed circular cross
section", a rule that is not understood by many designers in
bicycling. Tension must be high enough that supporting loads, by
standing on the bottom spokes, does not make them become slack under
compression. For this reason, pressure boxes are used to support the
hub and displace it laterally with respect to rim center while each
side in sequence is trued to final tension. This is also how these
wheels are stress relieved, by overloading one side at a time. In
spite of these methods, spokes still become slack on enough road
irregularities that spoke nipples are gooped with some adhesive to
prevent unscrewing.

All this for the vanity of those who believe bicycling is more
enjoyable if only there were fewer spokes... fewer than in my
neighbor's wheels.

Jobst Brandt

wrote:
Blake Paton writes:

Quite aside from all that, I don't know what sort of wheels you
have. If they are mod 16-paired-spoke wheels, forget it. Low
spoke could wheels require a fixture to properly tighten their
spokes.

Jobst, If you can find the time, could you elaborate on that fixture
notion a bit? That is new to me.

Spoke tension for 16 spokes must be so high that thread torque will
twist off spokes, especially with flat spokes, that have no more
torsional rigidity than "the largest inscribed circular cross
section", a rule that is not understood by many designers in
bicycling. Tension must be high enough that supporting loads, by
standing on the bottom spokes, does not make them become slack under
compression. For this reason, pressure boxes are used to support the
hub and displace it laterally with respect to rim center while each
side in sequence is trued to final tension. This is also how these
wheels are stress relieved, by overloading one side at a time. In
spite of these methods, spokes still become slack on enough road
irregularities that spoke nipples are gooped with some adhesive to
prevent unscrewing.


I thought that your rec./preference was spoke tension just short
of localized rim deflection near the spoke independent of spoke
count(?). To do this using higher spoke tensions for reduced
spoke count would seem to demand stronger rims for lower spoke
counts.

Velocity, for example, lists one weight for the Deep V drilled
16 through 48. It seems unlikely, then, that the different
drillings have different capability to withstand localized rim
deflection near the spoke. Lower count rims would then be
tensioned (per my understanding of your rec.) the same as higher
count ones and would not present added threat of twisting off
spokes.

What did I miss?
Ed

Ed wrote:
wrote:

Spoke tension for 16 spokes must be so high that thread torque will
twist off spokes, especially with flat spokes, that have no more
torsional rigidity than "the largest inscribed circular cross
section", a rule that is not understood by many designers in
bicycling. Tension must be high enough that supporting loads, by
standing on the bottom spokes, does not make them become slack under
compression.


I thought that your rec./preference was spoke tension just short
of localized rim deflection near the spoke independent of spoke
count(?). To do this using higher spoke tensions for reduced
spoke count would seem to de mand stronger rims for lower spoke
counts.

Velocity, for example, lists one weight for the Deep V drilled
16 through 48. It seems unlikely, then, that the different
drillings have different capability to withstand localized rim
deflection ne ar the spoke. Lower count rims would then be
tensioned (per my understanding of your rec.) the same as higher
count ones and would not present added threat of twisting off
spokes.

What did I miss?

No, his recommendation doesn't involve local failure near a spoke hole,
but overtensioning of the whole wheel giving the rim a wave pattern.
So, fewer spokes can be individually tensioned higher for a similar net
effect.
Jobst's book explains it pretty well:
http://tinyurl.com/cmlag

In any case, if you can't tension the fewer spokes higher, you'll have
a weaker wheel, for the reason he describes above. Slack spokes =
trouble, that's why they are tensioned.