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  #41  
Old August 1st 13, 05:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,162
Default Routemasters (again)

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 03:34:08 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

On Thursday, 1 August 2013 11:14:11 UTC+1, wrote:

While it obviously aids traffic flow I'm not too keen on it as it
won't be long before we have the "sorry mate, didn't see you" from
a driver as a pedestrian lies squashed on the road. There are too
many idiot drivers in the UK for this to work.


Yes. Pedestrians already have right of way over a vehicle turning
into a side road, but it's a perilous right to exercise.

As far as I remember, as far as I could make out the last time this
question arose, and referring to whichever legislation applies rather
than just the Highway Code, pedestrians have priority over a vehicle
turning from a side road into a main road too, i.e. it doesn't matter
which way around the road priorities are.

Ads
  #42  
Old August 1st 13, 10:21 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Thumper[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Routemasters (again)


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Truebrit" wrote in message
...


Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way to
them.

When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.

  #43  
Old August 1st 13, 10:41 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default Routemasters (again)

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:21:11 +0100, "Thumper"
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
news:[email protected] co.uk...
"Truebrit" wrote in message
...


Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way to
them.

When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.


Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?
  #44  
Old August 1st 13, 10:50 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Routemasters (again)

On 01/08/2013 22:41, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:21:11 +0100, "Thumper"
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Truebrit" wrote in message
...


Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way to
them.

When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.


Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?


It isn't an offence to cross against red, if that's what you mean.

But that is far from being an "unfettered" right to walk out across the
carriageway into the path of approaching traffic.

If a pedestrian is injured or worse as a result of doing so, he may find
that he can obtain no compensation because he is the only on who has
been negligent. Indeed, he may find that he is liable to reimburse the
losses of others (eg for damage to a vehicle) because he (the
pedestrian) is the party who has been negligent.
  #45  
Old August 2nd 13, 06:38 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
tim.....
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Routemasters (again)


"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2013 22:41, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:21:11 +0100, "Thumper"
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Truebrit" wrote in message
...


Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way
to
them.
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.


Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?


It isn't an offence to cross against red, if that's what you mean.

But that is far from being an "unfettered" right to walk out across the
carriageway into the path of approaching traffic.

If a pedestrian is injured or worse as a result of doing so, he may find
that he can obtain no compensation because he is the only on who has been
negligent.


ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards

tim


  #46  
Old August 2nd 13, 06:41 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
tim.....
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Routemasters (again)


"Truebrit" wrote in message
...
NY" wrote in message
Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way
to
them.

"Thumper" wrote:
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.


"Bertie Wooster" wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?
We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously
enforced.
Truebrit.


Where is here?

Does you name refer to your location or your birthplace (perhaps)?

IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your
chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible.

OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible.

tim



  #47  
Old August 2nd 13, 06:42 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
tim.....
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Routemasters (again)


"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013
18:04:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

NY" wrote in message
Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way
to
them.

"Thumper" wrote:
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.

"Bertie Wooster" wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?
We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously
enforced.
Truebrit.

No such thing as "jaywalking".
It's term invented by american petrolheads to disparage non-motorised
users of the roads.

Pedestrians have a right of way on all public highways.


having a right of way does not mean that you have "priority" access

tim


  #48  
Old August 2nd 13, 07:50 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Routemasters (again)

On 02/08/2013 06:38, tim..... wrote:

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
On 01/08/2013 22:41, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 22:21:11 +0100, "Thumper"
wrote:


"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Truebrit" wrote in message
...


Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one.
What do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give
way to
them.
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no
excuse for a pedestrian to still be crossing.

Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?


It isn't an offence to cross against red, if that's what you mean.
But that is far from being an "unfettered" right to walk out across
the carriageway into the path of approaching traffic.
If a pedestrian is injured or worse as a result of doing so, he may
find that he can obtain no compensation because he is the only on who
has been negligent.


ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards


I will *not* "find" that, for the simple and obvious reason that it is
not true. You are mistaking the general duty to react in amelioration
(where possible) of other peoples' bad behaviour as a duty to ensure or
guarantee that the bad behaviour cannot have any negative effects on the
person behaving badly.

That people may act negligently does not oblige others to act as if the
negligence is permanently under way. Everyone has a right to expect
everyone else to obey the rules insofar as they might impinge on one's
own rights.
  #49  
Old August 2nd 13, 08:52 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Ian Jackson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 205
Default Routemasters (again)

In message , tim.....
writes

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013
18:04:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

NY" wrote in message
Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way
to
them.

"Thumper" wrote:
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.

"Bertie Wooster" wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?
We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously
enforced.
Truebrit.

No such thing as "jaywalking".
It's term invented by american petrolheads to disparage non-motorised
users of the roads.

Pedestrians have a right of way on all public highways.


having a right of way does not mean that you have "priority" access

In the UK, no one has "right of way" on the roads - and "priority" does
not mean you can assert your priority if you know that, by doing so, you
will cause an 'accident' or other road-traffic incident.
--
Ian
  #50  
Old August 2nd 13, 11:12 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 07:50:58 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards


I will *not* "find" that, for the simple and obvious reason that it is
not true. You are mistaking the general duty to react in amelioration
(where possible) of other peoples' bad behaviour as a duty to ensure or
guarantee that the bad behaviour cannot have any negative effects on the
person behaving badly.

That people may act negligently does not oblige others to act as if the
negligence is permanently under way. Everyone has a right to expect
everyone else to obey the rules insofar as they might impinge on one's
own rights.


If that is the case, what do you make of the cyclist who, as described
in another thread, mowed down a young child on a pedestrian crossing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-23492094

From what you appear to be saying, so long as the lights on the
pedestrian crossing were green for the cyclist, and the cyclist wasn't
engaged in wanton or furious cycling, no offence occurred (section 170
of the 1988 road traffic act does not apply to cyclists).
 




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