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  #51  
Old August 2nd 13, 11:14 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 03:40:49 +0100
Phil W Lee wrote:
"Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013
There is no such thing in UK law as a right-of-way for a motor
vehicle.


There is by default on motorways and other vehicle only highways such as some
road tunnels and bridges. Eg Dartford crossing.

NJR

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  #54  
Old August 2nd 13, 01:15 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
The Other Mike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +0100, "tim....." wrote:


IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your
chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible.

OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible.


So much so in Germany that I've seen pedestrians lining up at a crossing set at
red around 6 in the morning in the middle of summer when you could see for a
couple of hundred metres in each direction there were no moving vehicles in
sight.


--
  #55  
Old August 2nd 13, 01:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
tim.....
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Routemasters (again)


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , tim.....
writes

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013
18:04:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

NY" wrote in message
Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one.
What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give
way
to
them.

"Thumper" wrote:
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for
a
pedestrian to still be crossing.

"Bertie Wooster" wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?
We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously
enforced.
Truebrit.

No such thing as "jaywalking".
It's term invented by american petrolheads to disparage non-motorised
users of the roads.

Pedestrians have a right of way on all public highways.


having a right of way does not mean that you have "priority" access

In the UK, no one has "right of way" on the roads


Yes they do. That's what roads are. Bits of land you have the right of way
to drive a vehicle down (as well as walk down).

Whereas footpaths are bits of land that you have rights of way to walk down,
but not drive down

and bridle paths .....

But being a right of way doesn't means that one user has a priority right to
do their thing over other users.

It just means that the owner of the land can't stick up a sign one day
withdrawing the right to use it (The RoW can only be removed using a
statutory process).

tim









  #56  
Old August 2nd 13, 01:56 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
tim.....
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Routemasters (again)


"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:


IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your
chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible.

OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible.


So much so in Germany that I've seen pedestrians lining up at a crossing
set at
red around 6 in the morning in the middle of summer when you could see for
a
couple of hundred metres in each direction there were no moving vehicles
in
sight.


and if you step off the pavement the person next to you shouts "murderer!"
(and then everyone else follows you)

tim


  #57  
Old August 2nd 13, 02:54 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Routemasters (again)

On 02/08/2013 11:12, Bertie Wooster wrote:

JNugent wrote:

ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards


I will *not* "find" that, for the simple and obvious reason that it is
not true. You are mistaking the general duty to react in amelioration
(where possible) of other peoples' bad behaviour as a duty to ensure or
guarantee that the bad behaviour cannot have any negative effects on the
person behaving badly.


That people may act negligently does not oblige others to act as if the
negligence is permanently under way. Everyone has a right to expect
everyone else to obey the rules insofar as they might impinge on one's
own rights.


If that is the case, what do you make of the cyclist who, as described
in another thread, mowed down a young child on a pedestrian crossing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-23492094

From what you appear to be saying, so long as the lights on the
pedestrian crossing were green for the cyclist, and the cyclist wasn't
engaged in wanton or furious cycling, no offence occurred (section 170
of the 1988 road traffic act does not apply to cyclists).


Was it a pelicon, or a zebra, crossing?

Please be pinpoint clear in your answer (one patent possibility being
that you don't know the answer, which need not be your fault) and be
aware that I may have a supplementary question upon the answer to which
any response to your question would hang.
  #58  
Old August 2nd 13, 02:55 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Routemasters (again)

On 02/08/2013 13:15, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 06:41:50 +0100, "tim....." wrote:


IME whilst ignoring a red man does constitute jaywalking in the UK, your
chances of being "ticketed" for it are somewhat less than negligible.

OTHO in the US and Germany it is quite possible.


So much so in Germany that I've seen pedestrians lining up at a crossing set at
red around 6 in the morning in the middle of summer when you could see for a
couple of hundred metres in each direction there were no moving vehicles in
sight.


Lots of people "jaywalk" in New York.

More on the grid streets than on the avenues, but still...
  #59  
Old August 2nd 13, 03:35 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Ian Jackson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 205
Default Routemasters (again)

In message , tim.....
writes

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , tim.....
writes

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news "Truebrit" considered Mon, 29 Jul 2013
18:04:00 -0400 the perfect time to write:

NY" wrote in message
Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good
What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should*
way
to
them.

"Thumper" wrote:
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30
seconds before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no
excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.

"Bertie Wooster" wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?
We have them here and for the most part they are quite vigorously
enforced.
Truebrit.

No such thing as "jaywalking".
It's term invented by american petrolheads to disparage non-motorised
users of the roads.

Pedestrians have a right of way on all public highways.

having a right of way does not mean that you have "priority" access

In the UK, no one has "right of way" on the roads


Yes they do. That's what roads are. Bits of land you have the right
of way to drive a vehicle down (as well as walk down).

Whereas footpaths are bits of land that you have rights of way to walk
down, but not drive down

and bridle paths .....

But being a right of way doesn't means that one user has a priority
right to do their thing over other users.

It just means that the owner of the land can't stick up a sign one day
withdrawing the right to use it (The RoW can only be removed using a
statutory process).

Now you're being a bit silly. The RoW you have decided to drag up, and
having it, is quite different from what is commonly (and wrongly)
referred to as "having right of way" on the public highway. What you
have is "priority" - which is why the Highway Code calls it that.
--
Ian
  #60  
Old August 2nd 13, 04:08 PM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 14:54:20 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 02/08/2013 11:12, Bertie Wooster wrote:

JNugent wrote:

ITYF that the car driver is still expected to anticipate such hazards


I will *not* "find" that, for the simple and obvious reason that it is
not true. You are mistaking the general duty to react in amelioration
(where possible) of other peoples' bad behaviour as a duty to ensure or
guarantee that the bad behaviour cannot have any negative effects on the
person behaving badly.


That people may act negligently does not oblige others to act as if the
negligence is permanently under way. Everyone has a right to expect
everyone else to obey the rules insofar as they might impinge on one's
own rights.


If that is the case, what do you make of the cyclist who, as described
in another thread, mowed down a young child on a pedestrian crossing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-23492094

From what you appear to be saying, so long as the lights on the
pedestrian crossing were green for the cyclist, and the cyclist wasn't
engaged in wanton or furious cycling, no offence occurred (section 170
of the 1988 road traffic act does not apply to cyclists).


Was it a pelicon, or a zebra, crossing?

Please be pinpoint clear in your answer (one patent possibility being
that you don't know the answer, which need not be your fault) and be
aware that I may have a supplementary question upon the answer to which
any response to your question would hang.


Pelicon, he
http://goo.gl/maps/bMJI8
http://goo.gl/maps/1XfpP
http://goo.gl/maps/CPhwL
 




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