Crash at Worlds Women's TT (spoilers)

On 9/27/2020 1:29 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 10:42:01 AM UTC-7, wrote:

The statement of the Belgium TV host was based on a tweet of the official US cycling team. It could be that they want to hide an equipment failure.

I wouldn't put a great deal of faith in that comment since they are bound to offer brand loyalty to their bike sponsor.

I am still pretty certain that it was a rapid though not instantaneous flat. I an very am very familiar with that sort of attempt to retain control when a soft tire removes your traction. And as Jay said, this sort of problem would be exacerbated with the long TT bars.


We're all in the same area: equipment not pilot error.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 9/26/2020 7:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 4:10:59 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/26/2020 1:27 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 19:21:35 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 9/26/2020 8:59 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 00:17:38 UTC+2 schreef Lou Holtman:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 19:14:14 UTC+2 schreef Mark J.:
On 9/24/2020 11:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 06:27:46 UTC+2 schreef Mark J.:
One of the major competitors at the World Championships Women's TT had a
nasty crash (but expected to "fully recover").

You can see a clear shot in the first 10 seconds of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzFIQmDJYU [video contains race spoilers]

Somehow I think this will be the most-discussed crash since Beloki in
the 2003 Tour.

Question: It appears the front wheel takes a sharp jolt just before
going into an uncontrolled speed wobble. What was the jolt - or what
was the overall cause? Blowout? Broken spoke? Rim failure? Something else?

Discuss.

Mark J.

It was told here that she had a flat in the front.

Lou

I heard commentators speculate so, seeing the same video we did. Have
you heard this reported from a reliable on-site source?

Partly I ask because, at such a lean in a turn, I would expect a front
blowout to bring the rider down right away rather than just set up a
wobble. Then there's the different behavior of flat clinchers vs flat
sewups, but it's not obvious which she was riding after recent
developments in TT tire usage.

Mark J.
No I had no confirmation. Didn't look for it either.

Lou


Watching the womens world champions race at the moment on Belgium televison. They stated that there was nothing wrong with the bike and it was a riders error.
What would that error be?


--
- Frank Krygowski

Too high speed for that bend and overreact while trying to correct.

I can understand those factors causing a crash, but I don't think they
explain the wobble.

The lever arm created by those aero bars may account for some of the wobble.

Yes, I *think* I saw other same-day competitors come up off the aerobars
in that turn. Pretty sure I saw that the next day in the Men's TT (who
had undoubtedly seen the video of the prior day's crash.) But I'm not
certain in either case.

Mark J.

On 9/27/2020 10:41 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 27 september 2020 om 19:34:52 UTC+2 schreef AMuzi:
On 9/26/2020 6:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/26/2020 1:27 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 19:21:35 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 9/26/2020 8:59 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 00:17:38 UTC+2 schreef
Lou Holtman:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 19:14:14 UTC+2 schreef
Mark J.:
On 9/24/2020 11:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 06:27:46 UTC+2
schreef Mark J.:
One of the major competitors at the World
Championships Women's TT had a
nasty crash (but expected to "fully recover").

You can see a clear shot in the first 10 seconds of
this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzFIQmDJYU [video
contains race spoilers]

Somehow I think this will be the most-discussed
crash since Beloki in
the 2003 Tour.

Question: It appears the front wheel takes a sharp
jolt just before
going into an uncontrolled speed wobble. What was
the jolt - or what
was the overall cause? Blowout? Broken spoke? Rim
failure? Something else?

Discuss.

Mark J.

It was told here that she had a flat in the front.

Lou

I heard commentators speculate so, seeing the same
video we did. Have
you heard this reported from a reliable on-site source?

Partly I ask because, at such a lean in a turn, I
would expect a front
blowout to bring the rider down right away rather than
just set up a
wobble. Then there's the different behavior of flat
clinchers vs flat
sewups, but it's not obvious which she was riding
after recent
developments in TT tire usage.

Mark J.
No I had no confirmation. Didn't look for it either.

Lou


Watching the womens world champions race at the moment
on Belgium televison. They stated that there was nothing
wrong with the bike and it was a riders error.
What would that error be?


--
- Frank Krygowski

Too high speed for that bend and overreact while trying to
correct.

I can understand those factors causing a crash, but I don't
think they explain the wobble.


I do not know but I'm with you. There's some unknown event
in the middle of that otherwise smooth normal turn.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The statement of the Belgium TV host was based on a tweet of the official US cycling team. It could be that they want to hide an equipment failure.

Lou

A team tweet sounds pretty authoritative to me. Thanks. Mark

On 9/27/2020 4:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/27/2020 10:41 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 27 september 2020 om 19:34:52 UTC+2 schreef AMuzi:
On 9/26/2020 6:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/26/2020 1:27 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 19:21:35 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 9/26/2020 8:59 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 00:17:38 UTC+2 schreef
Lou Holtman:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 19:14:14 UTC+2 schreef
Mark J.:
On 9/24/2020 11:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 06:27:46 UTC+2
schreef Mark J.:
One of the major competitors at the World
Championships Women's TT had a
nasty crash (but expected to "fully recover").

You can see a clear shot in the first 10 seconds of
this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzFIQmDJYU [video
contains race spoilers]

Somehow I think this will be the most-discussed
crash since Beloki in
the 2003 Tour.

Question: It appears the front wheel takes a sharp
jolt just before
going into an uncontrolled speed wobble. What was
the jolt - or what
was the overall cause? Blowout? Broken spoke? Rim
failure? Something else?

Discuss.

Mark J.

It was told here that she had a flat in the front.

Lou

I heard commentators speculate so, seeing the same
video we did. Have
you heard this reported from a reliable on-site source?

Partly I ask because, at such a lean in a turn, I
would expect a front
blowout to bring the rider down right away rather than
just set up a
wobble. Then there's the different behavior of flat
clinchers vs flat
sewups, but it's not obvious which she was riding
after recent
developments in TT tire usage.

Mark J.
No I had no confirmation. Didn't look for it either.

Lou


Watching the womens world champions race at the moment
on Belgium televison. They stated that there was nothing
wrong with the bike and it was a riders error.
What would that error be?


--
- Frank Krygowski

Too high speed for that bend and overreact while trying to
correct.

I can understand those factors causing a crash, but I don't
think they explain the wobble.


I do not know but I'm with you. There's some unknown event
in the middle of that otherwise smooth normal turn.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The statement of the Belgium TV host was based on a tweet of the
official US cycling team. It could be that they want to hide an
equipment failure.

Lou

A team tweet sounds pretty authoritative to me.Â* Thanks.Â* Mark

Well, I thought it was case closed, but Lennard Zinn pretty much
dismisses the "front flat" theory, and gives lots of video-analysis to
back it up. Even if the tire ended up flat, it could be that the crash
caused the flat rather than the other way around.

https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-w...nt-end-wobble/

Mark J.

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020 at 1:12:13 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/27/2020 4:18 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/27/2020 10:41 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zondag 27 september 2020 om 19:34:52 UTC+2 schreef AMuzi:
On 9/26/2020 6:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/26/2020 1:27 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 19:21:35 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 9/26/2020 8:59 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op zaterdag 26 september 2020 om 00:17:38 UTC+2 schreef
Lou Holtman:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 19:14:14 UTC+2 schreef
Mark J.:
On 9/24/2020 11:42 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op vrijdag 25 september 2020 om 06:27:46 UTC+2
schreef Mark J.:
One of the major competitors at the World
Championships Women's TT had a
nasty crash (but expected to "fully recover").

You can see a clear shot in the first 10 seconds of
this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzFIQmDJYU [video
contains race spoilers]

Somehow I think this will be the most-discussed
crash since Beloki in
the 2003 Tour.

Question: It appears the front wheel takes a sharp
jolt just before
going into an uncontrolled speed wobble. What was
the jolt - or what
was the overall cause? Blowout? Broken spoke? Rim
failure? Something else?

Discuss.

Mark J.

It was told here that she had a flat in the front.

Lou

I heard commentators speculate so, seeing the same
video we did. Have
you heard this reported from a reliable on-site source?

Partly I ask because, at such a lean in a turn, I
would expect a front
blowout to bring the rider down right away rather than
just set up a
wobble. Then there's the different behavior of flat
clinchers vs flat
sewups, but it's not obvious which she was riding
after recent
developments in TT tire usage.

Mark J.
No I had no confirmation. Didn't look for it either.

Lou


Watching the womens world champions race at the moment
on Belgium televison. They stated that there was nothing
wrong with the bike and it was a riders error.
What would that error be?


--
- Frank Krygowski

Too high speed for that bend and overreact while trying to
correct.

I can understand those factors causing a crash, but I don't
think they explain the wobble.


I do not know but I'm with you. There's some unknown event
in the middle of that otherwise smooth normal turn.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The statement of the Belgium TV host was based on a tweet of the
official US cycling team. It could be that they want to hide an
equipment failure.

Lou

A team tweet sounds pretty authoritative to me. Thanks. Mark

Well, I thought it was case closed, but Lennard Zinn pretty much
dismisses the "front flat" theory, and gives lots of video-analysis to
back it up. Even if the tire ended up flat, it could be that the crash
caused the flat rather than the other way around.

https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-w...nt-end-wobble/

Someone else suggested that there was something on the road there. Either a bump or a divot and that is what set the oscillation off. On Aero bars there is insufficient trail to keep a straight course if you're in an aero position. He said that he monitored other riders and they appeared to be avoiding the spot at which that oscillation began.