#61
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A Sustrans dilemma
Al C-F wrote: It's not just the paths created by SusTrans but the paths put in by Local Authorities who are following their lead. So much separation leads to abuse from motorists who complain when one chooses not to stay in the lane / use the path. I think some of the comments made about Sustrans on this thread are undeserved; to put it into context they started off as a body converting old railways which in the main they have done an excellent job of (I used many of them before Sustrans took them over). Somewhere along the line the remit does seems to have changed a bit into as you say creating an artificial alternative network, often where it is simply not practical. This may have involved local authorities and road safety officers. Much like parallel cycling farcilities to roads a minimum standard needs to be defined and met, and not the "paint a bike on the pavement/canal towpath etc." syndrome. And there needs to be a bit more cohesion, we now have an alternative NCN (the National Greenway) when they should all be working together. |
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#62
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A Sustrans dilemma
MartinM wrote: And there needs to be a bit more cohesion, we now have an alternative NCN (the National Greenway) when they should all be working together. Do you mean the National Byway? The National Bicycle Greenway seems to be a US initiative. spotter Unless you were referring to the Leyland Bus. /spotter I'll get my anorak... |
#63
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't entirely clear. I'm not pro-barriers per se, but I can see the reasoning for them being there. Personally I'd like to see (and I'd be interested to see more info in this subject..) barriers which do work, ie which could allow more utility accessories you mention, as well as other path users (tandem, trike etc.). I'm not sure how much we can blame Sustrans for barriers that are put in by local authorities. Current Sustrans guidelines actually state: "It is important ... to open all the controls ... so that a recumbent cyclist, for instance, does not get part way along and find their way barred..." URL:http://www.sustrans.org/webfiles/Info%20sheets/ff22.pdf and: "There should be a presumption against the use of any access barriers on a shared use path because of the difficulties they can cause users." URL:http://www.sustrans.org/webfiles/Info%20sheets/ff04.pdf The Sustrans guidelines changed a few years ago, though. Prior to that they were all in favour of the sort of barriers that prevent legitimate users from using the path. We are still left with the legacy of those guidelines, in the form of barriers that were installed years ago, and I wouldn't be surprised if some local authorities are still working with the old guidelines. Most of the barriers along the Bath-Bristol path were modified a few years ago, making them easier to get through. There are still 3 that I can't get through towing a trailer. They all have RADAR gates alongside, so I expected going out for a family ride to become easier once I acquired a RADAR key. Unfortunately the gates were rusted shut, so the key made no difference - until, a couple of weeks after I happened to mention the Disability Discrimination Act in an e-mail to the council, the gates received some much needed maintenance. Riding to Bath with the kids is now a lot easier. BTW, another Sustrans guidance sheet states that RADAR gates: "are unlikely to be acceptable under the [Disability Discrimination] Act since many disabled people find them impossible or extremely difficult to use. Consequently they should not be considered to be a 'reasonable' alternative. URL:http://www.sustrans.org/webfiles/scotland/FF42%20-%20Making%20traffic%20free%20paths%20more%20access ible.pdf The ideal situation is more policing, which would be excellent. Unfortunately that would mean that the police would actually have to do some work to justify the year-on-year increases in funding that they request from our council tax. I can't see it happening, somehow :-( -- Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address) URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine |
#64
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A Sustrans dilemma
Audrey wrote (of cyclepath barriers):
IME they don't stop the kids on motorbikes. and Tom responded: No, but they discourage them. If you are a kid on a motorbike and you see a nice looking track coming straight off a road with nothing to stop you getting on it, you're going to get on it - right? Where you can zoom around to your hearts content without getting into trouble. They don't seem to discourage them round here. The kids don't ride along the road and suddenly think "Ooh, there's a nice looking cyclepath". They know the path's there, they now the ways to get round the barriers and they go out with the specific intention of riding on the cyclepath. I don't believe the barriers make the slightest difference. -- Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address) URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine |
#65
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A Sustrans dilemma
Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
I'd suggest that if the tracks were fully used, then the motorbikes would not be on them anyway. The Bath-Bristol path is very heavily used. Doesn't stop the motorbikes. A few weeks ago I met a TV journalist and cameraman on the cyclepath at rush hour. There were _a lot_ of cyclists and peds around. Shortly after interviewing me, the cameraman got good shots of two motorcyclists weaving around peds and cyclists at speed. They weren't bothered about the path being busy. -- Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address) URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine |
#66
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A Sustrans dilemma
tom wrote:
the Bristol - Bath path is a very busy one, with traffic flowing in both directions. The Bristol-Bath path was created by Cyclebag, before it became Sustrans. I believe their goals have changed since then - perhaps not by a huge amount, but by enough to be significant. The contrast with some of the newer paths is very noticeable. Although I think many of the problems with Sustrans routes are due more to local authorities than to Sustrans, still ISTM that Sustrans have fallen into the trap of putting quantity before quality when providing cycle routes. And their habit of referring to "traffic free" routes really irritates me, especially when routes such as the Bath-Bristol are often heaving with cycle and pedestrian traffic. -- Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address) URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine |
#67
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A Sustrans dilemma
Mike K Smith wrote: MartinM wrote: And there needs to be a bit more cohesion, we now have an alternative NCN (the National Greenway) when they should all be working together. Do you mean the National Byway? The National Bicycle Greenway seems to be a US initiative. Err yes spotter Unless you were referring to the Leyland Bus. /spotter no that was called an Allegro ;-) |
#68
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A Sustrans dilemma
Perhaps Sustrans and its lousy routes would be acceptable if it and they
were marketed as an organisation providing routes for children, beginners and the timid. Noone provides special segregated roads for learner drivers. The clear implication of there being a special organisation to provide special routes, which has been given a big sum of lottery money and much cooperation and funding by local government is that cyclists need seperation from "real traffic". The alternative to cycle routes, if cycling should be encouraged, and if there is a difficulty with cycling on general roads, is to improve the conditions an all roads. There are many good reasons why this would be much preferable, if it were possible. ( Some reasons. Roads go everywhere. Many people intimidated by traffic are not cyclists, these include many pedestrians, parents of potential pedestrian children, older drivers, less assertive drivers of any age. Traffic speeds make many residential areas unpleasant etc.) The big problem with this idea ( making roads less intimidating) is that it is not acceptable to many drivers, and for many people so far outside the possible that it is literally unthinkable. Sustrans ideology functions as an alternative to improving road conditions. It also makes road conditions worse for cyclists, (except, perhaps, beginners and children). I do not see how traffic free routes help people learn how to deal with traffic. Personally, I find Sustrans routes generally rather worse than the road, and though a few are acceptable for leisure use, I would give every cycle "facility" I have ever seen or heard of if it were made mandatory for local authority cycle officers to be regular cyclists.( Not that this would be a universal panacea, just that it would do more good) Mike Sales |
#69
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A Sustrans dilemma
Danny Colyer wrote:
Ambrose Nankivell wrote: I'd suggest that if the tracks were fully used, then the motorbikes would not be on them anyway. The Bath-Bristol path is very heavily used. Doesn't stop the motorbikes. A few weeks ago I met a TV journalist and cameraman on the cyclepath at rush hour. There were _a lot_ of cyclists and peds around. Shortly after interviewing me, the cameraman got good shots of two motorcyclists weaving around peds and cyclists at speed. They weren't bothered about the path being busy. OK, so I'm optimistic. But I'd hope the more a path is used, the more the motorbikes are discouraged. Also, I'd suggest legislation that allowed confiscation of the bikes, but that may be difficult. A few well targetted ASBOs would certainly make a propoganda difference, though. -- Ambrose |
#70
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How much pain is involved in doing a Grimpeur?
I signed up for the Bransdale 115 Audax starting from Wiggington this
weekend because it had a 0.5 AAA rating on the Audax site and I fancied a more challenging 100k Audax. Now that I have received the route details, it has an AAA rating of 1.25 for the middle 51k because there is 1234m of climbing though it's too short to qualify but permission has been granted for the bronze grimpeur badge to be awarded. Does this make the ride a gruelling one? Route details can be seen at http://www.amkirby.demon.co.uk/NYDA/Events/R050910A.htm I'm glad that i didn't chose the 170km ride - it includes a 3rd cat, a 2nd cat and two 1st cat climbs one of which is Rosedale Chimney, gulp....... cheers Vernon not an ounce lighter after LEJOG but acquired thighs like anvils |
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