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A Sustrans dilemma



 
 
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  #71  
Old September 6th 05, 08:33 PM
Danny Colyer
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
Also, I'd suggest legislation that allowed confiscation of the bikes, but
that may be difficult.


Supposedly this is already in place. Certainly the Avon & Somerset
Constabulary say that they will confiscate the machines of anyone caught
riding a motorbike on a cyclepath, but I've never heard of it actually
happening.

A few well targetted ASBOs would certainly make a
propoganda difference, though.


I like that idea.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
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  #72  
Old September 6th 05, 08:35 PM
Danny Colyer
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

Mike Sales wrote:
Roads go everywhere.


Except where they don't. For example, the shortcut through the Avon
Valley taken by the Bath-Bristol path. Thanks to the cyclepath, my
daily commute is 2 miles shorter than the shortest road alternative.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
  #73  
Old September 6th 05, 09:06 PM
Mike the Unshavable
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

Danny Colyer writed in news:dfkr3a$dfu$2
@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk:

Mike Sales wrote:
Roads go everywhere.


Except where they don't. For example, the shortcut through the Avon
Valley taken by the Bath-Bristol path. Thanks to the cyclepath, my
daily commute is 2 miles shorter than the shortest road alternative.

And the NCN Route 6 between Market Harborough and Northampton, which is
more direct and has less hills than the alternative on-road route.(OK you
may not like the surface, but it's very ridable on a standard touring
bike).

Sustrans could do worse than establishing themselves as a body that
'kitemarks' cycle routes to encourage the better facilities and
disencourage les autres. With groups of experienced cyclists they could
surely help weed out the worst of the farcilies.

Mike - Leicester
  #74  
Old September 6th 05, 09:24 PM
Simon Brooke
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

in message , Danny Colyer
') wrote:

tom wrote:
the Bristol - Bath path is a very busy
one, with traffic flowing in both directions.


The Bristol-Bath path was created by Cyclebag, before it became
Sustrans. I believe their goals have changed since then - perhaps not
by a huge amount, but by enough to be significant. The contrast with
some of the newer paths is very noticeable.

Although I think many of the problems with Sustrans routes are due more
to local authorities than to Sustrans, still ISTM that Sustrans have
fallen into the trap of putting quantity before quality when providing
cycle routes.


Sustrans are prepared to endorse - to put their seal of approval on -
local authority schemes which are clearly unsuitable or actively
dangerous, and thus Sustrans are culpable. If Sustrans insisted on
routes being brought up to an acceptable standard before being endorsed,
and if Sustrans were prepared to remove endorsement from routes which
aren't adequately maintained, then they might have some positive role to
play.

As it is their routes aren't even consistently suitable for the 'children
and beginners' whom their apologists claim justify their segregated
paths.

And their habit of referring to "traffic free" routes really irritates
me, especially when routes such as the Bath-Bristol are often heaving
with cycle and pedestrian traffic.


Indeed.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig intentionally left blank ]

  #75  
Old September 6th 05, 09:26 PM
Mike Causer
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:06:13 +0000, Mike the Unshavable wrote:

Sustrans could do worse than establishing themselves as a body that
'kitemarks' cycle routes to encourage the better facilities and
disencourage les autres. With groups of experienced cyclists they could
surely help weed out the worst of the farcilies.


Except that that would eliminate 75% of their "off-road" [1] routes where
I live, and the 10,000 mile claim would take a severe battering.


[1] Around here it normally means "Alongside the road, dismount at
every junction and take your life in your hands at pub, farm shop, garden
centre, etc, driveways.".


Mike
  #76  
Old September 6th 05, 09:34 PM
Simon Brooke
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Default A Sustrans dilemma

in message ,
') wrote:

Simon Brooke wrote:

http://www.jasmine.org.ukdogfood/story/article_8.html

For some reason, I never see the images that you place at the
top left of each story.

Ah, in fact...

http://www.jasmine.org.uk:8180/dogfo...res/w-o-f1.jpg

connection refused......

As an aside, why have the pics on a non-standard port?


(i) history and (ii) I didn't know they still were. Whoops. Need to edit
the XSL that generates that page. Thanks.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
  #78  
Old September 6th 05, 09:42 PM
Rich
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Default A Sustrans dilemma


"tom" wrote in message
news

My first touring ride was
on a Sustrans path (Bristol to Bath),


just to be pedantic, the Bristol Bath path was built by Cyclebag, when
Sustrans wasn't even a twinkle in John Grimshaw's eye.

I had an awful mountain bike and all
my gear in a rucksack to camp overnight. I had an excellent time and I was
hooked, didn't look back. I doubt I'd have had such an excellent time if
I'd gone for a ride down the A4., wobbling all over the road.


But on the other hand, there are many thousands of cyclists, touring and
otherwise, who didn't start off on a Sustrans path, including me.

While many Sustrans paths may not be suitable for racing, I don't think
that is entirely surprising, given that road cyclists like umm roads.


IME none of the Sustrans paths are suitable for racing, but at least some of
them are suitable for road bikes. If you have to have a mountain bike to
ride these paths then they've failed.

As far as I can see, Sustrans is about creating a movement, helping people
to make their first steps into cycling and then supporting them


To quote the Sustrans mantra: "an organisation dedicated to providing paths
for pedestrians, the disabled, horseriders and cyclists." Sustrans
supported BANES council's proposal to allow horses on the Bristol-Bath path,
never mind that it is very busy and not wide enough, and that all the
cycling and pedestrian organisations opposed it, and the police.

I can't comment for other
parts of the country but down here, the Bristol - Bath path is a very busy
one, with traffic flowing in both directions.


It won't be quite so busy when the horses are allowed on it, with Sustrans
connivance. Many people have told me that they won't be allowing their
children on it any more because of the danger and the horse ****.


Personally,
if the quality of the path is good, I'd far rather be away from the road,
for reasons of safety and enjoyment.


You are misinformed. Cycling on shared use paths is much more dangerous
than riding on the road.

On the whole, I am a big fan
of Sustrans though. If you don't want to cycle on their network, don't,
but certainly don't complain that they are inadequate, unskilled, not
interested in their jobs or otherwise, because that is clearly
disrespectful to an organisation which is trying to encourage the use of
the bicycle, and are very alone in this quest.


You are entitled to your view. Please allow that other people are entitled
to theirs.


  #79  
Old September 6th 05, 10:07 PM
Mike Sales
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Default A Sustrans dilemma


"Danny Colyer" wrote in message
...
Mike Sales wrote:
Roads go everywhere.


Except where they don't. For example, the shortcut through the Avon
Valley taken by the Bath-Bristol path. Thanks to the cyclepath, my
daily commute is 2 miles shorter than the shortest road alternative.


So Bath and Bristol are connected by road. I would wager that the road is
quicker. That bikes are slower is often given as a reason why bike commuting
is less attractive, and if the bike is being used as transport, time is
often a factor.
Mike Sales


  #80  
Old September 6th 05, 10:17 PM
Mike Sales
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Default A Sustrans dilemma


"Mike the Unshavable" wrote in message
Mike Sales wrote:
Roads go everywhere.



And the NCN Route 6 between Market Harborough and Northampton, which is
more direct and has less hills than the alternative on-road route.(OK you
may not like the surface, but it's very ridable on a standard touring
bike).


So there is a road route. Faster I would guess.

There was and perhaps still is, a proposal to use the Llangefni to Amlwch
rail track, recently closed as a freight line, as a cycle route. It would
certainly be flatter, and perhaps shorter, but Anglesey has a lovely network
of little used lanes between the two. Only an extreme motor-phobic would
waste money here. There are much more intimidating roads on the island, but
a real solution would involve inconveniencing motorists by making them slow
down. The Council can pose as cyclist friendly by putting in crap facilities
with Sustrans endorsement, whilst making no real difference which might help
people to use bikes for everyday trips.

Mike Sales


 




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