Shift Levers - Continuous vs. Indexed

Wanting to replace my falling-apart 15-year old no-name touring bike
with something new, I visited the bike shops around Ann Arbor. I was
disappointed to see that bikes with indexed shift levers are the only
kind that are generally available. I want the old-fashioned
continuous levers with friction hold. I've had enough experience with
various indexed shifters to distrust their calibration stability.
With continuous shift levers I never have to worry about that because
I can constantly compensate for cable stretch and hysteresis by moving
the shift lever until the chain sounds right. Am I hopelessly out of
date? Or are there others who insist on simple continuous shift
levers?


-Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan
(Reply through newsgroups, not by direct e-mail, as automatic reply address is fake.)

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:08:48 +0000, Robert Scott wrote:

with friction hold. I've had enough experience with various indexed
shifters to distrust their calibration stability.

If so, I'd say your experience is out of date. I am impressed by how well
modern indexing with integrated levers works.

I, too, was used to friction levers. But remember the things you no
longer think about: friction levers working loose on a ride, having to
over shift and go back, the noisy clatter when it's not aligned right.
Sure, you can fix those things, but don't idealize friction shifting as
trouble-free.

With my "brifters" (as Sheldon Brown calls them), I can shift while
standing, shifts are accurate each and every time. Never a missed shift.
Adjustment was much easier than I expected. I use Campy Ergo, which also
are easily repairable. STI really aren't, which IMO*is a disadvantage.

Check these things out before you dismiss them.

With continuous shift
levers I never have to worry about that because I can constantly
compensate for cable stretch and hysteresis

You can, and you have to. Well, not cable stretch. Cables don't stretch.
That is really slipping friction control. You probably use bar-ends,
which were notoriously inaccurate because of the long cable runs. Newer
cables are better. At least try them.

until the chain sounds right. Am I hopelessly out of date? Or are there
others who insist on simple continuous shift levers?

They are not really all that simple. You have to listen to the drive
train all the time, and adjust frequently. You can't shift under even
modest load, and missed shifts are common.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | We have a record of conquest, colonization and expansion
_`\(,_ | unequalled by any people in the Nineteenth Century. We are not
(_)/ (_) | to be curbed now. --Henry Cabot Lodge, 1895

In article ,
(Robert Scott) wrote:

I was
disappointed to see that bikes with indexed shift levers are the only
kind that are generally available. I want the old-fashioned
continuous levers with friction hold.

The Dura-Ace barend shifters have an indexed and a friction mode.
You can switch between the modes by rotating a dial in the shifter.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrrymorse.com/bike/

"Robert Scott" wrote in message
...

Wanting to replace my falling-apart 15-year old no-name touring bike
with something new, I visited the bike shops around Ann Arbor. I was
disappointed to see that bikes with indexed shift levers are the only
kind that are generally available. I want the old-fashioned
continuous levers with friction hold. I've had enough experience with
various indexed shifters to distrust their calibration stability.
With continuous shift levers I never have to worry about that because
I can constantly compensate for cable stretch and hysteresis by moving
the shift lever until the chain sounds right. Am I hopelessly out of
date? Or are there others who insist on simple continuous shift
levers?

Robert, you are definitely not alone. There are many who have discovered (or
rediscovered) the joys of friction shifting. My decidedly non-retrogrouch
wife is among them. Recently, she wanted to switch to a lighter, faster
freehub setup (from the old 6-speed freewheel) on her good old Univega road
bike, and all I had to work with were her original 6-speed downtube SIS
shifters. After messing around for hours trying to get them to index
properly with a 7-speed cassette, I gave up and put the SIS shifters into
friction mode. I didn't think she'd like it; but she LOVED it. Now she
snicks through the gears like a champ. She even commented on how silky
smooth friction shifting feels. When I told her about the other options
(bar-cons, STI) and how much they cost, she said she preferred the friction
shifters. Can't say I blame her.

She hears me cussing my 2003 Ultegra STI shifters all the time! I'm not
happy with STI at all. When I go back to friction shifting, I realize why so
many riders love it. I've ridden 9-speed setups in friction mode (bar-con
shifters); and it's not too bad. I'd say that 8-speed cassettes are my
comfortable maximum for friction shifting, though.

Have a look at this Grant Peterson article from the Rivendell website on the
topic of various shifters. Grant loves friction shifters, as this article
makes clear:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/101_shifters.html

Barry

Robert Scott wrote:
I've had enough experience with
various indexed shifters to distrust their calibration stability.

I haven't had any calibration stability problems with my circa 1988
Dura-Ace 7-speed downtube shifters. Getting them adjusted properly
in the first place was a little tricky but once I had them dialed in
they stayed. The front shifter is still friction which is nice
considering that I have to trim it with respect the gear choice on
the rear cluster.

With continuous shift levers I never have to worry about that because
I can constantly compensate for cable stretch and hysteresis by moving
the shift lever until the chain sounds right.

I don't worry about this with indexed shifting at all. It hasn't been
a problem over many thousands of miles of riding. I'm told that newer
indexed systems are even better.

Am I hopelessly out of date?

Maybe.

Or are there others who insist on simple continuous shift levers?

Not many. Once you get a good working index system, it's not a problem
and it's much easier to get the shift right quickly. No overshift and
then trimming (on the back at least for me).

I believe that Shimano's downtube and bar end shifters can be put into
friction mode (mine can). If you want downtube or bar ends, that could
be the way to go--or you could retrofit some used shifters. A good
shop will replace the shifters for you (for a fee, I'm sure). You won't
find friction shifters on pre-built new bikes anywhere. You might find
some touring bikes with bar ends that may have a friction mode. That's
about it. Almost everyone prefers indexed shifting.

I used ot use friction exclusively. Then I had indexed for many years.
A while back I bought an old used bike for the frame that had
Super-Record components. I rode it for a while on the SR components and
even though they were worn, they worked great. I still missed the
indexing. It's just a lot easier.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now

"Robert Scott" wrote in message
...

Wanting to replace my falling-apart 15-year old no-name touring bike
with something new, I visited the bike shops around Ann Arbor. I was
disappointed to see that bikes with indexed shift levers are the only
kind that are generally available. I want the old-fashioned
continuous levers with friction hold. I've had enough experience with
various indexed shifters to distrust their calibration stability.
With continuous shift levers I never have to worry about that because
I can constantly compensate for cable stretch and hysteresis by moving
the shift lever until the chain sounds right. Am I hopelessly out of
date?

Yes.

I have used Shimano bar-end indexed shifters for 7 or so years now. I don't
recall a single shifting problem. I still have at least one bike with friction
shifting, it's a nuisance by comparison. Index shifting is fast and accurate,
one of the very few true improvements in the last couple of decades.

I'm big on friction shifting too, and for the same reasons you mention.
However, I recently equipped one of my bikes with Shimano's bar-end
shifters. They index with 9 speed cassettes, and have a friction mode. I
have found that the indexing works so well and needs little or no fiddling
once it is set up properly. And setting it up properly isn't difficult at
all. The systems have come such a long way, that once it is set up, you
won't have to do much with it to keep it working right.

But the friction mode is a really good thing, (and the Shimano's work
really nice in friction mode) -- the main advantage being that if for some
reason you should be far from home and have a problem, perhaps you have to
swap wheels and the new ones have different cog spacing than your original
ones, you can still shift like a pro.

I just bought a new bike for my wife, and it came with the integrated
brake/shift levers. It seems to me that the initial setup is not nearly as
easy as with more conventional levers (either downtube levers or bar-end
levers). I don't have enough experience with them to say how well they work
or how long they hold up. I'll probably get a lot of hate-mail for saying
this, but they seem needlessly complicated to me.

"Robert Scott" wrote in message
...

Wanting to replace my falling-apart 15-year old no-name touring bike
with something new, I visited the bike shops around Ann Arbor. I was
disappointed to see that bikes with indexed shift levers are the only
kind that are generally available. I want the old-fashioned
continuous levers with friction hold. I've had enough experience with
various indexed shifters to distrust their calibration stability.
With continuous shift levers I never have to worry about that because
I can constantly compensate for cable stretch and hysteresis by moving
the shift lever until the chain sounds right. Am I hopelessly out of
date? Or are there others who insist on simple continuous shift
levers?


-Robert Scott
Ypsilanti, Michigan
(Reply through newsgroups, not by direct e-mail, as automatic reply
address is fake.)