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Police pick on cyclist



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 1st 08, 03:52 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Martin[_2_]
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Posts: 551
Default Police pick on cyclist

David Hansen wrote:
I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp.

If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his
bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an
offence and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and
address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty
notice.


Just because a cyclist has a set of working lights on his bike, does not
mean that the lights are legal as primary lights. A cyclist could be lit
up like a christmas tree, and yet still get prosecuted for having no
lights if none of the lights are primary lights.

"Mr Cimini shone his front light in one officer's face to prove it was
working and it was at this point that it emerged the light had begun to
fade because it was low on battery power."

If the light was dim when he turned it back on to shine it in the cops
face, then it was probably even dimmer just before he turned it off.

I do think that as Mr Cimini was making had some lights on his bike, he
should have just been given a ticking off, but then shinning it in the
cops face would not help his cause.

Martin.

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  #12  
Old December 1st 08, 03:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
David Hansen
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Posts: 2,206
Default Police pick on cyclist

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:48:16 +0000 someone who may be Roger Thorpe
wrote this:-

And like many a person who thinks themself law-abiding, the middle class
offender is shocked to be treated like a criminal or even "a vagrant".


In this case it is not in the least clear whether the person was an
offender or not.

If the person was not an offender then the subsequent police actions
were illegal and the only offenders were the police officers
themselves.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #13  
Old December 1st 08, 03:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Roger Thorpe[_6_]
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Posts: 346
Default Police pick on cyclist

Given the small amount of information we have it's possible to build up
a picture of events where the rider is an arse just as easily as one can
make a picture where the policeman is an arse.
I was picked up like this about thirty years ago, and got provoked into
being an arse myself. At least I did get a (long) anecdote out of it,
but I won't repeat it here.
Roger Thorpe
  #14  
Old December 1st 08, 03:58 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Light of Aria[_2_]
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Posts: 169
Default Police pick on cyclist


"pk" wrote in message
...
"David Hansen" wrote in message
...


http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp.



Rough translation:

"the cyclist got lippy and tried to be clever by shining the "light" in
the officer's face" so they nicked him.

pk




That sounds like what may have happened. If you show Police disrespect they
will go to town on you.

Being a sociology lecturer he's the sort of person who might be a bit
bolshie. Catch a pig on the wrong day, and this is what happens. Count
himself lucky he didn't get tasered, clubbed or shot.

Also some people get very nervous near threatening authority types in peaked
caps, as I do, even though they've done nothing wrong. This can cause
normally decent rational people to misbehave in odd and irrational ways.



In my area cyclists seem to cycle along with no lights, some in Ninja mode,
with impunity. I would sort of appreciate it if the Police beat up a few
cycle nutters here.

Wouldn't it be cheaper for everyone if the Police just handed out £10 sets
of lights and be done with the problem.



  #15  
Old December 1st 08, 03:59 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Martin[_2_]
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Posts: 551
Default Police pick on cyclist

David Hansen wrote:
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:56 -0800 (PST) someone who may be calum
wrote this:-

The report states he was stopped for not showing *any* lights,


The report reports the claims of the police. That does not prove
that he was not showing *any* lights. It may be that the police
simply failed to spot the lights amongst the general array of lights
on the road, it may be that the police were unable to see them as
the police were not in the right position (for example looking from
the side),


If the police failed to spot his lights amongst the general array of
lights, then Mr Cimini needs to think if he needs more/better lights on
his bike. Some of the LED lights I see are very dim against a background
of other lights, which is why I am a big flashing lights.



"Officers told the 30-year-old they had spotted him cycling along the
busy Tollcross Street without any lights on..."


Read on to the next bit after the three dots, "But Mr Cimini
challenged this, claiming he had left his flat with both lights
working".


That is the odd thing, if he did have working lights, then the police
should have just let him get on his way.
  #16  
Old December 1st 08, 04:00 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Light of Aria[_2_]
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Posts: 169
Default Police pick on cyclist


"Martin" wrote in message
...
David Hansen wrote:
I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp.

If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his
bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an
offence and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and
address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty
notice.


Just because a cyclist has a set of working lights on his bike, does not
mean that the lights are legal as primary lights. A cyclist could be lit
up like a christmas tree, and yet still get prosecuted for having no
lights if none of the lights are primary lights.

"Mr Cimini shone his front light in one officer's face to prove it was
working and it was at this point that it emerged the light had begun to
fade because it was low on battery power."

If the light was dim when he turned it back on to shine it in the cops
face, then it was probably even dimmer just before he turned it off.

I do think that as Mr Cimini was making had some lights on his bike, he
should have just been given a ticking off, but then shinning it in the
cops face would not help his cause.

Martin.




Could he have just said "Yes sir... I'll get it fixed straight away sir...
three bags full sir."

Most coppers (well from experience 20 to 30 years ago) would tend not to
pursue someone who is respectful and compliant back.


  #17  
Old December 1st 08, 04:07 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Martin[_2_]
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Posts: 551
Default Police pick on cyclist

Light of Aria wrote:

"pk" wrote in message
...
"David Hansen" wrote in message
...


http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp.



Rough translation:

"the cyclist got lippy and tried to be clever by shining the "light"
in the officer's face" so they nicked him.

pk




That sounds like what may have happened. If you show Police disrespect
they will go to town on you.

Being a sociology lecturer he's the sort of person who might be a bit
bolshie. Catch a pig on the wrong day, and this is what happens. Count
himself lucky he didn't get tasered, clubbed or shot.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5224058.ece

Comrade Smith was talking about issuing the police with 10,000 tasers,
but the Met say they don't want to be routinely armed with them.


Also some people get very nervous near threatening authority types in
peaked caps, as I do, even though they've done nothing wrong. This can
cause normally decent rational people to misbehave in odd and irrational
ways.



In my area cyclists seem to cycle along with no lights, some in Ninja
mode, with impunity. I would sort of appreciate it if the Police beat up
a few cycle nutters here.


The majority round here seem to be lit up and night, although I do agree
that those without any sort of light should be fined.

Wouldn't it be cheaper for everyone if the Police just handed out £10
sets of lights and be done with the problem.


No, because then someone is being rewarded for breaking the law.
What happens is some places is that a cyclist is given a FPN for not
having lights, if the cyclist buys and fits lights within e.g. two
weeks, then the FPN is withdrawn.
I very much like that attitude.
  #18  
Old December 1st 08, 04:09 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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Posts: 7,173
Default Police pick on cyclist

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:06:01 +0000
David Hansen wrote:

I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp.

If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his
bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an
offence


Surely that's for the court to decide once he's refused to accept a FPN?

and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and
address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty
notice.

If he'd given his name and address rather than acting like a silly
bugger he'd probably have got away with an informal caution.

  #19  
Old December 1st 08, 04:10 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Light of Aria[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default Police pick on cyclist



Wouldn't it be cheaper for everyone if the Police just handed out £10
sets of lights and be done with the problem.


No, because then someone is being rewarded for breaking the law.
What happens is some places is that a cyclist is given a FPN for not
having lights, if the cyclist buys and fits lights within e.g. two
weeks, then the FPN is withdrawn.
I very much like that attitude.



I agree. Fining people isn't the point. Modifying the behaviour is the
objective.


  #20  
Old December 1st 08, 04:12 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Light of Aria[_2_]
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Posts: 169
Default Police pick on cyclist


"Rob Morley" wrote in message
news:20081201150940.2fa57849@bluemoon...
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:06:01 +0000
David Hansen wrote:

I see that the police have picked on another cyclist in Edinburgh
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-fined-after-three-hours.4747444.jp.

If the report is true then the cyclist had working lights on his
bike, though they may have been dim. Thus he was not committing an
offence


Surely that's for the court to decide once he's refused to accept a FPN?

and the police had no grounds to ask him for his name and
address. Thus the arrest was illegal, just like the fixed penalty
notice.

If he'd given his name and address rather than acting like a silly
bugger he'd probably have got away with an informal caution.




"words of advice" is apparently the euphemism they use now.

As someone who frequently confronts vandals, drunks, and yobs, I am appalled
at the number of times I've seen people blatantly "taking the ****" get away
with a mere ticking off.



 




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