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Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 1st 14, 02:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cyclingcapital of Australia"

On Monday, September 1, 2014 4:00:47 AM UTC+1, Clive George wrote:
And parking in central Cambridge is an utter nightmare.


I said to an elderly but still upright don, "Lion Yard consumed my afternoon." He said, "That's why the bootmaker's is across the street from the front gate [of King's College}. Order some Harrow boots and walk, my boy, walk."

And of course it's now well established tradition, which is probably the
most important thing.


That the underlying correct attitude and acceptance is in place seems to me a prime indicator of the success of any formal bicycling scheme. Cambridge is an excellent example.

What I'd like to know is what went right in York, a city I don't know, which also is said to have good cycling. Was it the university, or was it some other factor that cyclists elsewhere could usefully copy or aspire to?

Andre Jute
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  #12  
Old September 2nd 14, 01:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cyclingcapital of Australia"

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 7:42:20 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2014 5:48 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capital of Australia".




http://www.theherald.com.au/story/25...tralia/?cs=303




The guys behind the scheme want the government to commit A$75m to bicycling infrastructure.


(Not fiddly cheap local cosmetis that might as well be designed to kill

cyclists, real infrastructure.)

See the map at the URL above. If it comes off, it will be a model region.



Wow. Maybe they'll be as successful as Stevenage and Milton Keynes in

Britain, with their designed-in-from-the-start superhighways for bikes,

built with underpasses instead of road intersections, allowing easy

access all across the towns with almost no interactions with motor vehicles.



Just think! As with Stevenage and Milton Keynes, the bike modal share

might rise to as much as... well, 3%. At least, that's what those

towns have had. Not so impressive after all.



From http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/stevenage/



"The cycleways were mostly flat and there were cycle and pedestrian

bridges, and underpasses which wouldn�t have looked out of place in the

Netherlands at the time, mainly because they were modelled on Dutch

infrastructure. Stevenage was compact and Claxton [the designer] assumed

the provision of 12ft wide cycle paths and 7ft wide footways � separated

by grass strips as a minimum, and sometimes barriers, too � would

encourage residents to cycle and walk everywhere. He had witnessed high

usage of cycle tracks in the Netherlands and believed the same could be

achieved in the UK.



"Instead � to Claxton�s puzzlement, and eventual horror � residents of

Stevenage chose to drive, not cycle, even for journeys of two miles or

less."



"... Squint and, where the infrastructure is intact, under the

roundabouts for instance, and you could be in the Netherlands. Except

there are very few people on bikes."



Trendy Portland's bike mode share has stayed flat for several years,

despite more and more "innovative!" segregated facilities. And despite

the rah-rah headline, this article's

http://urbantimes.co/2014/06/bike-la...crease-biking/

bar graphs make clear that most people riding on "protected" cycle

tracks would have been riding anyway. Only a tiny percentage gave up

their car to use their bike.


By the way, the census information for calculating mode share is based on one question:

How did this person usually get to work LAST
WEEK? If this person usually used more than one
method of transportation during the trip, mark (X)
the box of the one used for most of the distance.

The questionnaire is completed in April -- not a great commuting month in Portland since it is so wet. I don't know what the sample size is.

I do know that my commute from Southwest has gotten busier -- a lot busier. I took a hilly-ish route from downtown last week during rush hour (earlier than I usually leave for home), and it was full of cyclists. I drag raced this one kid just because I can't help myself. I'm seeing a lot more cyclists in my part of the town, which is more challenging than the close-in east side from whence most cyclists commute.

Today was spectacular -- sunny but not too hot. I was riding in the(former) middle of nowhere with a friend of mine, and I must have seen 100 other riders comprising multiple packs. There were places when I actually sat up and said, goddamn its pretty -- but not for too long, because my buddy was flying, and it was hilly (more so than this picture lets on). http://tinyurl.com/ls5zpho

Even got a boat ride: http://tinyurl.com/kr2ez3m

-- Jay Beattie.



  #13  
Old September 2nd 14, 01:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"

On 01/09/14 23:16, Andre Jute wrote:


There's a lot of opportunity out there. The problem is that the
cyclists, with very rare exceptions, are not politicians. They're
clumsy in their handling of the pollies, to say the least. I have
hope for this Hunter scheme because I know at least one of the people
involved, and he's a jollier-along. He might get something done where
full-frontal confrontation and lane-taking has already failed.

Andre Jute



Very close to where I intend to be living soon(ish) is this;

http://www.northernriversrailtrail.o...rail/overview/

It'd get me to the coast at Byron Bay from my new home, with only an
hour of road riding.

I might even persuade the better half!

--
JS
  #14  
Old September 2nd 14, 01:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Clive George
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Posts: 5,394
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"

On 02/09/2014 01:05, jbeattie wrote:

I drag raced this one kid just because I can't help myself.


But did you win?

  #15  
Old September 2nd 14, 03:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cyclingcapital of Australia"

On Monday, September 1, 2014 5:26:47 PM UTC-7, Clive George wrote:
On 02/09/2014 01:05, jbeattie wrote:



I drag raced this one kid just because I can't help myself.




But did you win?


He was pulling away on a hill but then blew a gasket. We rolled over the top together, and we chatted over the next set of rollers. He didn't know where he was going, so I gave him directions. Nice Bohemian kid -- really hairy legs and cut-offs (but with SPDs)riding something Soma-ish. No helmet (don't worry Frank, I didn't scold him). He was clearly over-powered and making a point of flying by the guys in Lycra. As I become older and even more decrepit, I'm going to have to learn to just let people ride by -- which I do nw, but usually after getting dropped.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #16  
Old September 2nd 14, 04:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"

On 02/09/14 12:16, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 1, 2014 5:26:47 PM UTC-7, Clive George wrote:
On 02/09/2014 01:05, jbeattie wrote:



I drag raced this one kid just because I can't help myself.




But did you win?


He was pulling away on a hill but then blew a gasket. We rolled over
the top together, and we chatted over the next set of rollers. He
didn't know where he was going, so I gave him directions. Nice
Bohemian kid -- really hairy legs and cut-offs (but with SPDs)riding
something Soma-ish. No helmet (don't worry Frank, I didn't scold
him). He was clearly over-powered and making a point of flying by the
guys in Lycra. As I become older and even more decrepit, I'm going to
have to learn to just let people ride by -- which I do nw, but
usually after getting dropped.


I caught a young gun at a pedestrian light last week. I got going again
after the lights went green and thought I was going ok at about
35-38km/h. He had a backpack on, so I didn't expect him to blast by me
at near 45km/h to do a turn... but he did.

I was fine sitting on, but wasn't looking forward to doing a comparable
turn of pace. Then lady luck smiled on me. As he stood up for a small
rise, a banana leapt from his back pack and he stopped to go back for it.

I kept going and put some distance between us. Thankfully he never
caught up to me.

--
JS

  #17  
Old September 2nd 14, 05:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"

On 9/1/2014 8:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:


By the way, the census information for calculating mode share is based on one question:

How did this person usually get to work LAST
WEEK? If this person usually used more than one
method of transportation during the trip, mark (X)
the box of the one used for most of the distance.

The questionnaire is completed in April -- not a great commuting month in Portland

since it is so wet. I don't know what the sample size is.

I'm not sure of your point, Jay. Would you suggest they ask the
question in December? Yes, I imagine bike mode share is higher in (say)
June or July, but it's certainly lower in the dreary winter. April
seems about midway.

And it's theoretically possible to ask more detailed questions every
month, or every week. But someone has to pay for that.

I've stated my observations on PDX. I think there is no time that 6% of
the vehicles in motion - or stopped on the gridlocked streets and
highways - are bicycles. Polling only city residents gives optimistic
answers, applicable only to those who have chosen the trendy Portland
inner-city lifestyle. IOW, suburban commuters don't count in the
surveys, but they dominate on the ground.

I do know that my commute from Southwest has gotten busier -- a lot busier.

I took a hilly-ish route from downtown last week during rush hour (earlier
than I usually leave for home), and it was full of cyclists. I drag raced
this one kid just because I can't help myself. I'm seeing a lot more
cyclists
in my part of the town, which is more challenging than the close-in east
side
from whence most cyclists commute.

Your observations may be accurate, and increases in bike mode share - if
any - may be the beginning of a sea change. OTOH, they may just be the
tides of fashion, as permanent as love beads or leisure suits.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old September 2nd 14, 05:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"

On 9/1/2014 10:16 PM, jbeattie wrote:
Nice Bohemian kid -- really hairy legs and cut-offs (but with SPDs)riding something

Soma-ish. No helmet (don't worry Frank, I didn't scold him).

And I bet he didn't scold you, either. ;-)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #19  
Old September 2nd 14, 05:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cycling capitalof Australia"

On 9/1/2014 11:01 PM, James wrote:


I caught a young gun at a pedestrian light last week. I got going again
after the lights went green and thought I was going ok at about
35-38km/h. He had a backpack on, so I didn't expect him to blast by me
at near 45km/h to do a turn... but he did.

I was fine sitting on, but wasn't looking forward to doing a comparable
turn of pace. Then lady luck smiled on me. As he stood up for a small
rise, a banana leapt from his back pack and he stopped to go back for it.

I kept going and put some distance between us. Thankfully he never
caught up to me.


I led a ride last week that had a 1.5 mile steep hill. (Well, maybe 6%
grade.) At my age, I decided it was best to just take it easy - or at
least, easier than I used to. One guy motored past me, but downshifted
when the grade increased. It was pleasant to grind on past him, and
pleasant to be 3rd to the top out of about a dozen riders.

But there's no doubt I'm slowing significantly. I can remember helping
one rider, years ago, by pushing her up a long hill. She's now well
known as an excellent climber. It's about time for her to return that
favor!

(I'm tempted to remove my 3 pound Carradice bag for the hilly rides. I
think it might get my bike's weight down to 30 pounds.)

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old September 2nd 14, 04:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Melbourne, eat your heart out: "Hunter could be the cyclingcapital of Australia"

On Monday, September 1, 2014 9:07:57 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/1/2014 8:05 PM, jbeattie wrote:





By the way, the census information for calculating mode share is based on one question:




How did this person usually get to work LAST


WEEK? If this person usually used more than one


method of transportation during the trip, mark (X)


the box of the one used for most of the distance.




The questionnaire is completed in April -- not a great commuting month in Portland


since it is so wet. I don't know what the sample size is.



I'm not sure of your point, Jay. Would you suggest they ask the

question in December? Yes, I imagine bike mode share is higher in (say)

June or July, but it's certainly lower in the dreary winter. April

seems about midway.



And it's theoretically possible to ask more detailed questions every

month, or every week. But someone has to pay for that.



I've stated my observations on PDX. I think there is no time that 6% of

the vehicles in motion - or stopped on the gridlocked streets and

highways - are bicycles. Polling only city residents gives optimistic

answers, applicable only to those who have chosen the trendy Portland

inner-city lifestyle. IOW, suburban commuters don't count in the

surveys, but they dominate on the ground.



I do know that my commute from Southwest has gotten busier -- a lot busier.


I took a hilly-ish route from downtown last week during rush hour (earlier

than I usually leave for home), and it was full of cyclists. I drag raced

this one kid just because I can't help myself. I'm seeing a lot more

cyclists

in my part of the town, which is more challenging than the close-in east

side

from whence most cyclists commute.



Your observations may be accurate, and increases in bike mode share - if

any - may be the beginning of a sea change. OTOH, they may just be the

tides of fashion, as permanent as love beads or leisure suits.


I can't wait for the tide to recede because I'm sick of the bicycle traffic.. This ain't no Amsterdam, but it's still a f****** conga line of bicycles on some mornings.

You'll love this morning's conflict: I'm in the traffic lane, and there's a bike lane next to me that is about to end. I'm passing the conga line of cyclists. When the lane ends, the riders in the bike lane just cut to the left and practically in to me. Then I jam on my brakes because some pedestrian has dipped his toe in to traffic, and all the cars stopped (mid block, not at a light -- we have all these mid-block cross walks for no apparent reason). Some cyclist behind me tells me to watch out. I figure that I'm in the lane; the bike lane is ending, and cyclists have to merge like any other traffic, and I'm traffic.

Who knows, though -- because we have to look at the rules applicable to over-taking vehicles (me), which I'm too lazy to read this morning.

One problem with our bike lane law is that you have to be in the bike lane unless your passing another bike or some other exception applies, which doesn't including riding the speed of traffic. You should not have to be in the bike lane -- or pretend like you're "passing" (bobbing in and out of the bike lane) -- when you're going the speed of traffic.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




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