The Bikes are coming along

Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas.. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?

On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?

More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/7/2021 3:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?

More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.

-- Jay Beattie.

Agreed, though Trek has *changed* several of its formerly BB90 bikes to
a T47 standard, at least according to the specs on their web page.

I have to admit that while my (two!) BB90 bikes are stiff as all get out
at the BB, it's a PITA to fit them with anything out of the mainstream
(e.g. a triple on my Domane, and functional lower gearing on my
Checkpoint - before GRX changed from vaporware into publicly obtainable
bike parts.) In that light, T47 seems like a smart move (for me, prob
not so much for Trek).

Mark J.

On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 3:53:52 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 5/7/2021 3:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?

More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.

-- Jay Beattie.

Agreed, though Trek has *changed* several of its formerly BB90 bikes to
a T47 standard, at least according to the specs on their web page.

I have to admit that while my (two!) BB90 bikes are stiff as all get out
at the BB, it's a PITA to fit them with anything out of the mainstream
(e.g. a triple on my Domane, and functional lower gearing on my
Checkpoint - before GRX changed from vaporware into publicly obtainable
bike parts.) In that light, T47 seems like a smart move (for me, prob
not so much for Trek).

I think it was a smart move for everyone. With the internal/external bearing option, the T47 will work with any crank on the market, AFAIK (some oddballs may need adaptors). There might be some outlier that doesn't work at all, but BB30/BB386/Shimano cranks all should work. Campy would work with the spendy Ultratorque T47 cups. And it gives builders the real estate they wanted at the BB. I'm an all-Shimano two-ring crank guy, so the various formats didn't bother me, and all have been pretty quiet -- particularly the BB90/BB86 PF bottom brackets.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 3:28:13 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank.. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?
More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.

More idiocy from the moron. Where did I say anything about T47 other than it was a major improvement over BB90? It take a special kind of loser to say absolutely anything to contradict someone.

On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?
It turns out that the front derailleur I was gong to use doesn't fit very well. So I installed a Shimano braze-on adapter and installed the Chorus CT derailleur which looks fine. I have to meet a man today who wants to test ride the Lemond which will then leave me with the Colnago and the Felt to sell. I'm surprised that the Felt didn't go out the door on the first day and I think I'm going to have to kick the price up and let them talk me down. The Colnago needs a chainset added before it is saleable. That means waiting or the FSA bottom bracket.

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:03:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 3:28:13 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?
More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.
More idiocy from the moron. Where did I say anything about T47 other than it was a major improvement over BB90? It take a special kind of loser to say absolutely anything to contradict someone.

Dear dope, you said: "There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems."

"Revamp" means "an act of improving the form, structure, or appearance of something." A T47 is not a "revamped" BB90 and bears little resemblance to a BB90. You could state that it is a revamped PF30. Trek adopted a different BB standard that is narrower with a larger OD and ID. Invented here in Oregon. https://www.thespoken.cc/t47-bb-standard

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 8:31:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:03:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 3:28:13 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings.. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?
More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable.. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.
More idiocy from the moron. Where did I say anything about T47 other than it was a major improvement over BB90? It take a special kind of loser to say absolutely anything to contradict someone.
Dear dope, you said: "There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems."

"Revamp" means "an act of improving the form, structure, or appearance of something." A T47 is not a "revamped" BB90 and bears little resemblance to a BB90. You could state that it is a revamped PF30. Trek adopted a different BB standard that is narrower with a larger OD and ID. Invented here in Oregon. https://www.thespoken.cc/t47-bb-standard

So what you're saying is that the T47 isn't a better form and structure than a BB90.

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 2:54:17 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 8:31:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:03:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 3:28:13 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?
More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike.. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.
More idiocy from the moron. Where did I say anything about T47 other than it was a major improvement over BB90? It take a special kind of loser to say absolutely anything to contradict someone.
Dear dope, you said: "There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems."

"Revamp" means "an act of improving the form, structure, or appearance of something." A T47 is not a "revamped" BB90 and bears little resemblance to a BB90. You could state that it is a revamped PF30. Trek adopted a different BB standard that is narrower with a larger OD and ID. Invented here in Oregon. https://www.thespoken.cc/t47-bb-standard
So what you're saying is that the T47 isn't a better form and structure than a BB90.

T47 is not an improved version of a BB90. It is an improved version of a PF30, and the difference is significant if you own a BB30 crank. For example, you might say that an M16 is a revamp of an AR15, but it is not a revamp of a M1.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 3:44:19 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 2:54:17 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 8:31:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 7:03:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 3:28:13 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 1:20:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well, I am waiting for the FSA bottom bracket to install the FSA crankset into the Colnago. I used the Campy lugs and Crankset in the titanium Douglas. The Eddy Merckx is waiting for Italian threaded Campy Centaur crankset and the Lemond has had two people that want to test ride it. It shifts so well with the Di2 the only thing possible for them to complain about is the price and the late model Zurichs are going for more than half of my asking price for the complete bike. I have seen the Dura Ace Di2 selling for more than I'm asking for the bike. Not to mention it has Campy wheels on it. The bike with these not especially light Campy wheels on it weighs 20.4 lbs so there is no weight handicap.

The Douglas Vector is my riding bike right now but the Douglas Ti and the Eddy probably will be in the future. Comparing the Eddy and the Vector, the Eddy rides a lot softer and yet handles very well.

Now that the Felt gravel bike is finished I'm surprised that I haven't had a call on that. I'm asking less than for a medium grade over-the-counter bike. I suppose it's waiting for the right party. I wonder if I raise the price I wouldn't have people calling and trying to talk me down. Maybe it is so cheap that people think that it is not a good bike.

I found it pretty surprising that Campy Power Torque and Ultra-Torque cups look exactly the same and yet use slightly different sized bearings. Since the Power Torque bearings are slightly larger it isn't a case of the bearing being insufficient.

Surprising thing to me was that the locking nut in the Ultra-Torque bottom bracket had come completely loose but apparently the bearing friction kept the crankset together. Score 5 more points with me and the extreme good luck of it not coming apart on the road. It turns out that that bearing is on the large side of the tolerances so it didn't come loose on a ride. I was also lucky that the lock nut didn't come out and get lost. There is ALWAYS some tolerances that keep the Ultra Torque shaft from fully engaging so there will always be some movement there. I'm interested in seeing how reliable the splined Power Torque setup will be. The spines are tapered so it should go on tight enough that there is never any loosening motions.

When I stalled the Record Crank in the same cups it slid right in as it should.

The Campy stuff is mostly carbon but the Shimano stuff is not. What's more, although the Shimano stuff shifts more reliably. It is also a little less reliable. Especially the latest manual shifters that have the cable take a sharp right hand turn in the lever body. The previous generation had the shift cables coming out the side of the lever which was a much smoother turn to the cable run. But it would fill up with junk and stop shifting. That latest Dura Ace and Ultegra cranksets are hollow and built in two pieces and they break fairly often. The 105 on the other hand is one piece with the back hollowed out a little. That is a heavier but far more reliable crank. And the difference is only an ounce.

So I will stick with Campy. I may have to stop and give the cable adjuster a quarter turn once in awhile but for the most part they are what the doctor ordered.

I think that Jay said that he is riding slightly heavier and older Specialized because he thinks that it is more reliable. There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems. But come on - DISK BRAKES ONLY?
More dopiness, but at least this is bicycle related dopiness. I have never said I ride an older, heavier Specialized because it is more reliable. My light bike is a Trek Emonda SLR Race Shop Project One, which you should know because I've mentioned it about a million times. It's a great bike. Thank you Trek (got it employee pricing). My son just got a new S-Works disc Tarmac which he loves. He is threatening to get me the same frame so we can be twinsees (except in any meaningful way like watt output).

T47 is not a re-vamped BB90. T47 is a revamped PF30 shell with a 1mm larger, threaded ID. It has a 68mm width -- and not 90mm. Theoretically, one could tap a steel PF30 shell to take a T47 BB.
More idiocy from the moron. Where did I say anything about T47 other than it was a major improvement over BB90? It take a special kind of loser to say absolutely anything to contradict someone.
Dear dope, you said: "There are a lot of complaints from Specialized owners but the Trek owners main complaints seem to be that damned BB90 which they revamped into the T47 which should solve all of those problems."

"Revamp" means "an act of improving the form, structure, or appearance of something." A T47 is not a "revamped" BB90 and bears little resemblance to a BB90. You could state that it is a revamped PF30. Trek adopted a different BB standard that is narrower with a larger OD and ID. Invented here in Oregon. https://www.thespoken.cc/t47-bb-standard
So what you're saying is that the T47 isn't a better form and structure than a BB90.
T47 is not an improved version of a BB90. It is an improved version of a PF30, and the difference is significant if you own a BB30 crank. For example, you might say that an M16 is a revamp of an AR15, but it is not a revamp of a M1.

Tell everyone here. Would you rather have the BB90 or the T47?