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High ratio climbing gears



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 21st 19, 06:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default High ratio climbing gears

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 8:58:39 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2019 18:10:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 8:11:07 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2019 16:41:23 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 7:02:48 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2019 10:30:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Well, due to continuous nagging from my brother and GCN making a lot of claims and how much trouble I had at the Grizzly Peak Century I decided to go from my 29 large cog to a 32.

Well, Campy doesn't make an 11-32 or anything else with a 32 for that matter. These are common on Shimano and SR 10 speed bikes.

I finally discovered that Interlock makes a 10 speed 11-32 and went to several shops who couldn't get that gear.

Finally I went to Robinson's Wheel Works only 2 miles from my home.. Chris really is a knowledgeable mechanic and when I said what I wanted he said to NOT buy Interloc anything because they don't shift properly and wear out rapidly.

He also said that the Campy rear derailleur wouldn't shift anything larger than a 29. I told him that I was getting a mid-length rear derailleur and he said that it still wouldn't shift a gear lower than 29.

Then it occurred to me that I had seen that problem on a Campy triple I had built. If you get the chain length correct the upper arms doesn't have enough motion to lift out of the way of anything larger than a 28. If you pull a link out it CAN shift a 29.

So I will have to get a conversion set of 11 speed Campy to go to a gear set that large and that is now so expensive that I will have to weight a long time.

Or just buy Shimano that will shift a larger cog :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Isn't the pull ratio on Shimano and Campy different?

Cheers

I was probably a bit obscure. I meant junk that Italian stuff that
won't shift the big cogs and get the good Japanese stuff that will :-)
The whole kit and caboodle!

(Remember Pearl Harbor!)
--
cheers,

John B.


But both my 9-speed Mirage and my 9-speed Veloce (circa 2001) WILL shift up to a 32 teeth Shimano or SRAM 9-speed cog with no problem at all. It's what I use on one of my touring bikes.

Cheers


I have never used any Campy gear



That says everything. Campagnolo and Shimano use different notch patterns for the freehub. So if you have Campagnolo hubs, you have to use Campagnolo cassettes. Or cassettes cut with the same pattern as Campagnolo uses in its freehub. And with Shimano, it has its unique notch system in its freehub bodies. So the only way to switch Campagnolo and Shimano cassettes between bikes is if you have a hub built for the cassette you want to use.

You cannot put a Shimano cassette onto a Campagnolo hub. Or take Shimano cogs off a cassette and put them onto a Campagnolo cassette. There isn't interchangeability.





but my experience with Shimano stuff
is that it is pretty easy, at least on road bike cassettes, to add or
subtract cogs. I presently have what I bought as a 11 - 30 (10 speed)
cassette that I changed to a 12-32 cassette by adding a 32 tooth
sprocket - with the proper width spacer - and leaving off the 11
tooth (smallest) sprocket. I've also built up complete cassettes using
loose sprockets and at least on 9 and 10 speed sets the difference in
only in the spacers between the sprockets.

I built a 13 - 25, 9 speed, especially for Bangkok riding as Bangkok
is generally flat with occasional "fly overs" or "hump-backed"
bridges. I always thought that a 17 - 25 cassette would be just the
thing, but I could never locate all the sprockets
(17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25).
--
cheers,

John B.


Ads
  #22  
Old May 21st 19, 06:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default High ratio climbing gears

On Mon, 20 May 2019 22:11:15 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 8:58:39 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2019 18:10:02 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 8:11:07 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2019 16:41:23 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 7:02:48 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2019 10:30:17 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

Well, due to continuous nagging from my brother and GCN making a lot of claims and how much trouble I had at the Grizzly Peak Century I decided to go from my 29 large cog to a 32.

Well, Campy doesn't make an 11-32 or anything else with a 32 for that matter. These are common on Shimano and SR 10 speed bikes.

I finally discovered that Interlock makes a 10 speed 11-32 and went to several shops who couldn't get that gear.

Finally I went to Robinson's Wheel Works only 2 miles from my home. Chris really is a knowledgeable mechanic and when I said what I wanted he said to NOT buy Interloc anything because they don't shift properly and wear out rapidly.

He also said that the Campy rear derailleur wouldn't shift anything larger than a 29. I told him that I was getting a mid-length rear derailleur and he said that it still wouldn't shift a gear lower than 29.

Then it occurred to me that I had seen that problem on a Campy triple I had built. If you get the chain length correct the upper arms doesn't have enough motion to lift out of the way of anything larger than a 28. If you pull a link out it CAN shift a 29.

So I will have to get a conversion set of 11 speed Campy to go to a gear set that large and that is now so expensive that I will have to weight a long time.

Or just buy Shimano that will shift a larger cog :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Isn't the pull ratio on Shimano and Campy different?

Cheers

I was probably a bit obscure. I meant junk that Italian stuff that
won't shift the big cogs and get the good Japanese stuff that will :-)
The whole kit and caboodle!

(Remember Pearl Harbor!)
--
cheers,

John B.

But both my 9-speed Mirage and my 9-speed Veloce (circa 2001) WILL shift up to a 32 teeth Shimano or SRAM 9-speed cog with no problem at all. It's what I use on one of my touring bikes.

Cheers


I have never used any Campy gear



That says everything. Campagnolo and Shimano use different notch patterns for the freehub. So if you have Campagnolo hubs, you have to use Campagnolo cassettes. Or cassettes cut with the same pattern as Campagnolo uses in its freehub. And with Shimano, it has its unique notch system in its freehub bodies. So the only way to switch Campagnolo and Shimano cassettes between bikes is if you have a hub built for the cassette you want to use.

You cannot put a Shimano cassette onto a Campagnolo hub. Or take Shimano cogs off a cassette and put them onto a Campagnolo cassette. There isn't interchangeability.

Which is one of the many reasons that I use Shimano :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #23  
Old May 21st 19, 08:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default High ratio climbing gears

It has taken me decades of doing bike service, commercially and as a hobby, to become completely convinced that Campagnolo shifting gear is crippled junk. They've been playing catch-up with Shimano since SIS appeared, but they haven't caught up yet.

You can use a Wolf Tooth RoadLink as a prosthesis to make Campy junk slightly less crippled. I put one on my e-bike so it can cope with the 16-40 cassette and 14-38 freewheel I use.
  #24  
Old May 21st 19, 11:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 824
Default High ratio climbing gears

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 9:00:59 AM UTC+2, Chalo wrote:
It has taken me decades of doing bike service, commercially and as a hobby, to become completely convinced that Campagnolo shifting gear is crippled junk. They've been playing catch-up with Shimano since SIS appeared, but they haven't caught up yet.

You can use a Wolf Tooth RoadLink as a prosthesis to make Campy junk slightly less crippled. I put one on my e-bike so it can cope with the 16-40 cassette and 14-38 freewheel I use.


O don't think Campagnolo shifting gear is more crippled than Shimano road bike shifting gear. It works well, is reliable and durable but more expensive. But if your aim is maximal flexibility towards lower gears it is not the best option like Shimano DA is also not the best option.

Lou
  #25  
Old May 21st 19, 02:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Theodore Heise[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default High ratio climbing gears

On Mon, 20 May 2019 16:37:32 -0700 (PDT),
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 5:12:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 4:09:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:

So I will have to get a conversion set of 11 speed Campy
to go to a gear set that large and that is now so
expensive that I will have to weight a long time.

^^^^^^
Freudian?


I have gone over the "official" large cog size on a few
different cassettes and rear derailleurs and never had any
problems. Just remember to never use big-big or
small-small. Not difficult.

You're looking for a 10 speed Campagnolo cassette with 32
teeth. OK. Campagnolo does make a 30 tooth cassette.
Tiny bit better than 29. Not 32, but...

The Miche Primato cassette is 10 speed and Campagnolo
compatible. Its available in 13-30. Since your mechanic is
against IRD / Interloc Racing Design.

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-centaur-10-speed-road-cassette/rp-prod89134?gs=1&sku=sku468398&pgrid=54137515364&pta id=pla-431322560060&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campa ign=PLA+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=m kwid|sU6ivRhB2_dc|pcrid|253659801802|pkw||pmt||prd |468398US&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6IiZxv-q4gIVg8DACh2rCA8LEAQYAyABEgIhLfD_BwE

https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-c...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/miche-primato-10-speed-cassette-campagnolo/rp-prod152804?gs=1&sku=sku556861&pgrid=54137515364&pt aid=pla-432746137323&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campa ign=PLA+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=m kwid|sKz1DblpO_dc|pcrid|253659801802|pkw||pmt||prd |556861US&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxNva3YGr4gIVDb7ACh3g7g T2EAQYASABEgKb_PD_BwE


Also should have stated that with Campagnolo, the left/front
Ergo shifter does not care about double or triple chainrings.
So its easy to just put on a triple crank if you need low
gears. I have my mountain climbing bike setup with Veloce 9
speed triple crank (74mm inner bcd so it has a 24 tooth inner
ring) and 13-28 cassette. 24x28 low gear is low enough for
unloaded mountain climbing.


Oh man thanks for that! I'll have to check the inner bcd on my
9-speed Veloce triple circa 2001 and see if I can put a 24 ring
on it. It'd sure beat the 30 that's on t here now.


I did something very similar on my coupled tandem with 700c
wheels. It came with Shimano components: chainrings of 53/39/30,
and a 10-speed cassette that was 11/13/15/17/19/22/25/28/32/36. To
accomodate that very large 36-tooth cog, it had a mountain bike
rear der (Shimano XTR) and the rear shifting was never entirely
satisfactory--I could only get it dialed in for about half the
cogs at a time.

I fixed it by going to a road bike rear der (shorter cage) that I
don't think was available at the time we bought the bike, a
narrower cassette range, and a complement of smaller chainrings.

Specifically, with the long throw Ultegra road derailer I used a
Shimano HG VIA HG500-10 (11-32) cassette, and a Powerglide
AL-7075-T6, 130 BCD, 50/39 chainring set with a 26 tooth small
ring. The resulting rear shifting was beautiful, and the front
shifting was fine (facilitated by use of a front Campy brifter and
its numerous positions)

As an aside, we initially experienced occasional severe chain
skipping when standing on the pedals. I eventually tracked it
down to a middle ring that was too small (a 38 tooth); confirmed
by observed wear spots on each end of the spider arms (an example
is he http://www.panix.com/~theise/spider.jpg).

This led me to conclude that the 38 tooth chainring was too small
(duh!) and the chain was not fully seating on the middle ring--and
therefore riding high on the teeth, and slipping when high power
was being applied. Indeed, when I put a new 39 tooth chainring on
the bike, the problem resolved.

I've been *very* happy with the shifting, and the combination of
gears works quite well for us. My only regret is not havig done
all this sooner!

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA
  #26  
Old May 21st 19, 05:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default High ratio climbing gears

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 12:00:59 AM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
It has taken me decades of doing bike service, commercially and as a hobby, to become completely convinced that Campagnolo shifting gear is crippled junk. They've been playing catch-up with Shimano since SIS appeared, but they haven't caught up yet.

You can use a Wolf Tooth RoadLink as a prosthesis to make Campy junk slightly less crippled. I put one on my e-bike so it can cope with the 16-40 cassette and 14-38 freewheel I use.


I would agree with you but for the problem that Shimano simply stops working and Campy doesn't. I have had two sets of DuraAce and right not a newish 6700 Ultegra simply stop working correctly. You have to snap the right inner lever back and forth a couple of times before it will shift down. The DuraAce simply stopped working altogether. Another actually jammed a small lever all the way over and it had to be pushed over to get back home.

So while Shimano is working it works better than Campy which isn't adjusted perfectly, but they fail so often I don't like them. What is strange is that the Deore stuff is totally reliable.
  #27  
Old May 21st 19, 05:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default High ratio climbing gears

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 3:02:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 9:00:59 AM UTC+2, Chalo wrote:
It has taken me decades of doing bike service, commercially and as a hobby, to become completely convinced that Campagnolo shifting gear is crippled junk. They've been playing catch-up with Shimano since SIS appeared, but they haven't caught up yet.

You can use a Wolf Tooth RoadLink as a prosthesis to make Campy junk slightly less crippled. I put one on my e-bike so it can cope with the 16-40 cassette and 14-38 freewheel I use.


O don't think Campagnolo shifting gear is more crippled than Shimano road bike shifting gear. It works well, is reliable and durable but more expensive. But if your aim is maximal flexibility towards lower gears it is not the best option like Shimano DA is also not the best option.

Lou


I presently have "the touch" for adjusting the Campy shifters and when set up properly they work perfectly. When you can't even hear an up or down shift it's good.
  #28  
Old May 23rd 19, 11:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 275
Default High ratio climbing gears

Tom, I didn't get the size of your small front chainring. I really like my compact crankset, BTW. If you aren't using one, you might want to try one.
  #29  
Old May 24th 19, 02:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
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Posts: 6,153
Default High ratio climbing gears

On 21/5/19 3:30 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
Well, due to continuous nagging from my brother and GCN making a lot
of claims and how much trouble I had at the Grizzly Peak Century I
decided to go from my 29 large cog to a 32.

Well, Campy doesn't make an 11-32 or anything else with a 32 for that
matter. These are common on Shimano and SR 10 speed bikes.

I finally discovered that Interlock makes a 10 speed 11-32 and went
to several shops who couldn't get that gear.

Finally I went to Robinson's Wheel Works only 2 miles from my home.
Chris really is a knowledgeable mechanic and when I said what I
wanted he said to NOT buy Interloc anything because they don't shift
properly and wear out rapidly.

He also said that the Campy rear derailleur wouldn't shift anything
larger than a 29. I told him that I was getting a mid-length rear
derailleur and he said that it still wouldn't shift a gear lower than
29.

Then it occurred to me that I had seen that problem on a Campy triple
I had built. If you get the chain length correct the upper arms
doesn't have enough motion to lift out of the way of anything larger
than a 28. If you pull a link out it CAN shift a 29.

So I will have to get a conversion set of 11 speed Campy to go to a
gear set that large and that is now so expensive that I will have to
weight a long time.


Not sure if someone else has already mentioned, but you can get a
bracket that mounts the derailleur a bit lower so it can accommodate
bigger sprockets.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

--
JS
  #30  
Old May 24th 19, 04:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default High ratio climbing gears

On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 6:51:11 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 21/5/19 3:30 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
Well, due to continuous nagging from my brother and GCN making a lot
of claims and how much trouble I had at the Grizzly Peak Century I
decided to go from my 29 large cog to a 32.

Well, Campy doesn't make an 11-32 or anything else with a 32 for that
matter. These are common on Shimano and SR 10 speed bikes.

I finally discovered that Interlock makes a 10 speed 11-32 and went
to several shops who couldn't get that gear.

Finally I went to Robinson's Wheel Works only 2 miles from my home.
Chris really is a knowledgeable mechanic and when I said what I
wanted he said to NOT buy Interloc anything because they don't shift
properly and wear out rapidly.

He also said that the Campy rear derailleur wouldn't shift anything
larger than a 29. I told him that I was getting a mid-length rear
derailleur and he said that it still wouldn't shift a gear lower than
29.

Then it occurred to me that I had seen that problem on a Campy triple
I had built. If you get the chain length correct the upper arms
doesn't have enough motion to lift out of the way of anything larger
than a 28. If you pull a link out it CAN shift a 29.

So I will have to get a conversion set of 11 speed Campy to go to a
gear set that large and that is now so expensive that I will have to
weight a long time.


Not sure if someone else has already mentioned, but you can get a
bracket that mounts the derailleur a bit lower so it can accommodate
bigger sprockets.

https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/roadlink

--
JS


Thanks James. I ordered one. Though I still have to discover a workable 11-32 Campy 10 speed replacement cassette. The local real expert tells me that Interloc doesn't shift right and not to even bother with them.
 




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