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  #11  
Old April 15th 14, 02:11 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
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Posts: 4,757
Default Result of today's race

On 15/04/2014 13:37, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 20:50, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 00:29, TMS320 wrote:

(*) To that end, I have just discovered that Specsavers sell ear plugs
with
a variety of characteristics. Now, should I go for music or
motorbike...

Suddenly losing one of your senses is one of the worst and most
dangerous
things any road user can suffer, to do it voluntarily smacks of
stupidity.

Quite. I value my hearing and should like to keep it in good order.

The use of headphones by cyclists has been a factor in many crashes
leading to deaths or serious injuries.

It cannot be denied that cyclists wearing headphones have been involved
in
crashes. Who says it was a factor?

So go right ahead.

Plugs do not reduce sound to nothing! Perceiving and interpreting sound
is
not a matter of the louder the better. Plugs reduce both foreground and
background a similar amount so relationship is retained. If plugs can be
tuned then there is no reason why perception can't be improved.


coroners say it was a factor.


Have you seen the transcripts?

Or is it, perhaps, that you read something written by a journalist? And
arrived at your own conclusion.

I think it is up to the cyclist to determine whether the senses are
compromised. Wouldn't you? Not a difficult thing to do.




Cyclists are too stupid to make up their own minds in a sensible fashion
with regard to safety, so they need to be forced to do things.

A google search for headphones and cyclists will show up many crashes
where the headphones are a factor, I see no reason to disbelieve the
findings of a coroner as reported in the press.

There are moves afoot in London to ban cycling with headphones, I am
sure there must be a good reason for that, it seems unlikley that it
would be randomly chosen for enforcement without reason or cause.
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  #12  
Old April 15th 14, 08:21 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Result of today's race


"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 15/04/2014 13:37, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 20:50, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 00:29, TMS320 wrote:

(*) To that end, I have just discovered that Specsavers sell ear
plugs
with
a variety of characteristics. Now, should I go for music or
motorbike...

Suddenly losing one of your senses is one of the worst and most
dangerous
things any road user can suffer, to do it voluntarily smacks of
stupidity.

Quite. I value my hearing and should like to keep it in good order.

The use of headphones by cyclists has been a factor in many crashes
leading to deaths or serious injuries.

It cannot be denied that cyclists wearing headphones have been involved
in
crashes. Who says it was a factor?

So go right ahead.

Plugs do not reduce sound to nothing! Perceiving and interpreting sound
is
not a matter of the louder the better. Plugs reduce both foreground and
background a similar amount so relationship is retained. If plugs can
be
tuned then there is no reason why perception can't be improved.

coroners say it was a factor.


Have you seen the transcripts?

Or is it, perhaps, that you read something written by a journalist? And
arrived at your own conclusion.

I think it is up to the cyclist to determine whether the senses are
compromised. Wouldn't you? Not a difficult thing to do.


Cyclists are too stupid to make up their own minds in a sensible fashion
with regard to safety, so they need to be forced to do things.


If that was true, you would have a lot more bodies to talk about. Luck
doesn't work very well for staying alive on the roads.

A google search for headphones and cyclists will show up many crashes
where the headphones are a factor,


When I search, the top entry is about something that happened in 2010. (And
as described, it has the classic hallmarks of an eye problem - similar to
the one that also afflicts a lot of non-cycling road users.) What search
term do
you suggest?

I see no reason to disbelieve the findings of a coroner as reported in the
press.


OK, so you've arrived at your own conclusion.

There are moves afoot in London to ban cycling with headphones,


Looks more like a knee jerk proposal to appease the ignorant masses...

I am sure there must be a good reason for that, it seems unlikley that it
would be randomly chosen for enforcement without reason or cause.


....and having jerked their knees it seems they're now running
around looking for some evidence to suggest a link.



  #13  
Old April 15th 14, 09:42 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,757
Default Result of today's race

On 15/04/2014 20:21, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 15/04/2014 13:37, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 20:50, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 00:29, TMS320 wrote:

(*) To that end, I have just discovered that Specsavers sell ear
plugs
with
a variety of characteristics. Now, should I go for music or
motorbike...

Suddenly losing one of your senses is one of the worst and most
dangerous
things any road user can suffer, to do it voluntarily smacks of
stupidity.

Quite. I value my hearing and should like to keep it in good order.

The use of headphones by cyclists has been a factor in many crashes
leading to deaths or serious injuries.

It cannot be denied that cyclists wearing headphones have been involved
in
crashes. Who says it was a factor?

So go right ahead.

Plugs do not reduce sound to nothing! Perceiving and interpreting sound
is
not a matter of the louder the better. Plugs reduce both foreground and
background a similar amount so relationship is retained. If plugs can
be
tuned then there is no reason why perception can't be improved.

coroners say it was a factor.

Have you seen the transcripts?

Or is it, perhaps, that you read something written by a journalist? And
arrived at your own conclusion.

I think it is up to the cyclist to determine whether the senses are
compromised. Wouldn't you? Not a difficult thing to do.


Cyclists are too stupid to make up their own minds in a sensible fashion
with regard to safety, so they need to be forced to do things.


If that was true, you would have a lot more bodies to talk about. Luck
doesn't work very well for staying alive on the roads.

A google search for headphones and cyclists will show up many crashes
where the headphones are a factor,


When I search, the top entry is about something that happened in 2010. (And
as described, it has the classic hallmarks of an eye problem - similar to
the one that also afflicts a lot of non-cycling road users.) What search
term do
you suggest?

I see no reason to disbelieve the findings of a coroner as reported in the
press.


OK, so you've arrived at your own conclusion.

There are moves afoot in London to ban cycling with headphones,


Looks more like a knee jerk proposal to appease the ignorant masses...

I am sure there must be a good reason for that, it seems unlikley that it
would be randomly chosen for enforcement without reason or cause.


...and having jerked their knees it seems they're now running
around looking for some evidence to suggest a link.



a cyclist went under a train just a couple of months ago, he was wearing
headphones, two other people shouted at him to stop, but he could not
hear them. One incident like that is too many, but there are others.
However, I am certain that you know best, cyclists always do.
  #14  
Old April 16th 14, 09:35 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Result of today's race

"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 15/04/2014 20:21, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote


There are moves afoot in London to ban cycling with headphones,


Looks more like a knee jerk proposal to appease the ignorant masses...

I am sure there must be a good reason for that, it seems unlikley that
it
would be randomly chosen for enforcement without reason or cause.


...and having jerked their knees it seems they're now running
around looking for some evidence to suggest a link.

a cyclist went under a train just a couple of months ago, he was wearing
headphones, two other people shouted at him to stop, but he could not hear
them. One incident like that is too many, but there are others.


What has being on a bike got to do with it? It was obviously the same eye
problem that a lot of people have.

However, I am certain that you know best,


Thank you.

cyclists always do


There is something even more certain than that; nobody ever takes advice
from a busybody.



  #15  
Old April 16th 14, 09:59 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
MrCheerful
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,757
Default Result of today's race

On 16/04/2014 09:35, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 15/04/2014 20:21, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote


There are moves afoot in London to ban cycling with headphones,

Looks more like a knee jerk proposal to appease the ignorant masses...

I am sure there must be a good reason for that, it seems unlikley that
it
would be randomly chosen for enforcement without reason or cause.

...and having jerked their knees it seems they're now running
around looking for some evidence to suggest a link.

a cyclist went under a train just a couple of months ago, he was wearing
headphones, two other people shouted at him to stop, but he could not hear
them. One incident like that is too many, but there are others.


What has being on a bike got to do with it? It was obviously the same eye
problem that a lot of people have.

However, I am certain that you know best,


Thank you.

cyclists always do


There is something even more certain than that; nobody ever takes advice
from a busybody.




the cyclist did not hear the train horn, nor the shouts, do you think he
might have heard without headphones? I do. The coroner did.

Your last sentence proves the need for legislation, you evidently do not
know best. Behaving like a spoilt brat with a God complex seems to be
cyclist modus operandi.
  #16  
Old April 17th 14, 08:22 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Dave- Cyclists VORC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default Result of today's race

On 15/04/2014 13:37, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 20:50, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 14/04/2014 00:29, TMS320 wrote:

(*) To that end, I have just discovered that Specsavers sell ear plugs
with
a variety of characteristics. Now, should I go for music or
motorbike...

Suddenly losing one of your senses is one of the worst and most
dangerous
things any road user can suffer, to do it voluntarily smacks of
stupidity.

Quite. I value my hearing and should like to keep it in good order.

The use of headphones by cyclists has been a factor in many crashes
leading to deaths or serious injuries.

It cannot be denied that cyclists wearing headphones have been involved
in
crashes. Who says it was a factor?

So go right ahead.

Plugs do not reduce sound to nothing! Perceiving and interpreting sound
is
not a matter of the louder the better. Plugs reduce both foreground and
background a similar amount so relationship is retained. If plugs can be
tuned then there is no reason why perception can't be improved.


coroners say it was a factor.


Have you seen the transcripts?

Or is it, perhaps, that you read something written by a journalist? And
arrived at your own conclusion.

I think it is up to the cyclist to determine whether the senses are
compromised. Wouldn't you? Not a difficult thing to do.



Cyclists senses are always compromised.

--
Dave - Cyclists VORC
Bicycles are for Children. Like masturbation, something you should grow
out of.
There is something seriously sick and stunted about grown men who want
to ride a bike."
  #17  
Old April 17th 14, 09:08 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Result of today's race


"Mrcheerful" wrote in message
...
On 16/04/2014 09:35, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote
On 15/04/2014 20:21, TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote


There are moves afoot in London to ban cycling with headphones,

Looks more like a knee jerk proposal to appease the ignorant masses...

I am sure there must be a good reason for that, it seems unlikley that
it
would be randomly chosen for enforcement without reason or cause.

...and having jerked their knees it seems they're now running
around looking for some evidence to suggest a link.

a cyclist went under a train just a couple of months ago, he was wearing
headphones, two other people shouted at him to stop, but he could not
hear
them. One incident like that is too many, but there are others.


What has being on a bike got to do with it? It was obviously the same eye
problem that a lot of people have.

However, I am certain that you know best,


Thank you.

cyclists always do


There is something even more certain than that; nobody ever takes advice
from a busybody.


the cyclist did not hear the train horn, nor the shouts, do you think he
might have heard without headphones? I do. The coroner did.


So what is the particular relevance with riding bicycles? (And for goodness
sake do try harder than "this is a cycling newsgroup".)

But thank you for your advice. The next time I find myself unexpectedly
teleported onto a railway track, I shall try to remember to look out for
trains.

Your last sentence proves the need for legislation, you evidently do not
know best.


Something seems to make you think you know best.

Behaving like a spoilt brat with a God complex seems to be
cyclist modus operandi.


You are the one that wants to interfere, yet accuse me of playing god? You
really haven't thought this through.

Yesterday I tried the effect of putting cotton wool in one ear. The
one affected by the moron with the horn a couple of weeks ago had not
fully recovered before being irritated by a sore throat. I have been in the
habit for several years of using cotton wool or noise cancelling in-ear
phones (without music) to take the edge off noisy places. First time on the
bike. Yes, it improved perception - I found I could more easily separate out
the sounds of individual vehicles. I expect a reduction in wind noise was
the significant factor.

It also helps reinforce what I already knew. Vehicle noise is only a useful
aid on roads with light motor traffic. In town, it gives little value.

So it looks like there's potential for more tuning - to cut as much
vehicle noise as possible but try to avoid losing the properly important
stuff,
such as birds singing, rustling leaves, jogger's feet on tarmac, the snick
of the bicycle chain and so on.


  #18  
Old April 17th 14, 09:50 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,000
Default Result of today's race

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 09:08:53 +0100, "TMS320" wrote:

snip



the cyclist did not hear the train horn, nor the shouts, do you think he
might have heard without headphones? I do. The coroner did.


So what is the particular relevance with riding bicycles?



Here is just a tiny little clue:

Was the person who did not hear the train horn, a pedestrian, a horse-rider, or
a cyclist?

Can you perhaps try and work that out for us?


  #19  
Old May 17th 14, 08:12 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Mark Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 595
Default Result of today's race

"TMS320" writes:

(*) To that end, I have just discovered that Specsavers sell ear
plugs with a variety of characteristics. Now, should I go for music
or motorbike...


Suddenly losing one of your senses is one of the worst and most
dangerous things any road user can suffer, to do it voluntarily
smacks of stupidity.


Quite. I value my hearing and should like to keep it in good order.


Exactly p.net). I
use noise cancelling earphones which are set up to filter out much of
the whine of motorists and my hearing is doing just fine, thank you. If
I didn't use them, I might well be cycling around deaf instead. Now
there would be something for Mr. Cheerful to be cheerful about :-)!

The use of headphones by cyclists has been a factor in many crashes
leading to deaths or serious injuries.


It cannot be denied that cyclists wearing headphones have been
involved in crashes. Who says it was a factor?


The `dead cat on the table' brigade (URL:http://departmentfortransport
..wordpress.com/2013/11/27/boris-johnson-is-an-arsehole/) are wont to
claim it as a factor even when the cyclist wasn't wearing headphones.
They are almost invariably making it up to misdirect attention away from
the actual source of the danger. This tactic has been and will continue
to be very successful while there are a surfeit of gullible people.

So go right ahead.


Plugs do not reduce sound to nothing! Perceiving and interpreting
sound is not a matter of the louder the better. Plugs reduce both
foreground and background a similar amount so relationship is
retained. If plugs can be tuned then there is no reason why perception
can't be improved.


Even passive earphones are of benefit (URL:http://rideons.wordpress.com
/2012/07/09/an-ear-on-the-traffic/), but active noise cancelling
headphones are more sophisticated than that. They reduce the external
frequencies to a narrow[er] range of volumes such that they do not
conflict with the internal frequencies of any audio playing. The only
time when this is potentially confusing is when one is listening to a
realistic recording of traffic whilst walking/ cycling/ motoring in
traffic.

--
Mark
 




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