target weights for cyclist-specific weight training

Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and
most of them talk about how to determine the amount of weight
to be lifted initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll need?

I realize there are some variables here, but it would be great if there were
a percentage-of-body-weight rough estimation of what riders should
eventually be lifting for some key exercises like:
squat (free weight)
hamstring curl
calf raise
shallow leg press
deadlift
situp
back extension
bench press
seat row

In article , kitchen
wrote:

Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and
most of them talk about how to determine the amount of weight
to be lifted initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll need?

I realize there are some variables here, but it would be great if there were
a percentage-of-body-weight rough estimation of what riders should
eventually be lifting for some key exercises like:
squat (free weight)

I've seen guys who could squat from 200-400 lbs and there was virtually
no correlation between their squat weight and speed on the bike. I've
seen big guys who couldn't break 13.0 in the 200mTT.

Length of your limbs (levers) has a profound effect on your ability in
the weight room. If you can squat 150% of your BW you should probably
get on your bike to figure out how to turn that into speed. And isn't
that more important anyway?

-WG

kitchen wrote:
Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and
most of them talk about how to determine the amount of weight
to be lifted initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll
need?

http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/quadrant_analysis/
http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/misc/id4.html

"kitchen" wrote in message
...

Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and
most of them talk about how to determine the amount of weight
to be lifted initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll
need?

AFAIK, Joe Friel is the only coach who has put forth guidelines like those
you are seeking - see his 'Bible'.

Me, I would say that if you're strong enough to actually climb onto your
bike, that's probably strong enough. ;-)

Andy Coggan

kitchen wrote:
But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll
need?

Andy Coggan wrote:
Me, I would say that if you're strong enough to actually climb onto your
bike, that's probably strong enough. ;-)

I can bench press a mountain bike !

In article et, Andy
Coggan wrote:

Me, I would say that if you're strong enough to actually climb onto your
bike, that's probably strong enough. ;-)

But after a hard session of squats he may not be able to climb onto his
bike. Is that overtraining?

-WG

Andy Coggan wrote:
"kitchen" wrote in message news:btqldo012pn@en-
m...

Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and most of
them talk about how to determine the amount of weight to be lifted
initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises-- perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to
continue to build on that or have I already built more strength there
than I'll
need?
AFAIK, Joe Friel is the only coach who has put forth guidelines like
those you are seeking - see his 'Bible'.
Me, I would say that if you're strong enough to actually climb onto your
bike, that's probably strong enough. ;-)
Andy Coggan


And, if you're not strong enough to climb on your bike, i wouldn't b
worried about cycling..

Ri


-

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 23:00:28 -0600, "kitchen" wrote:


Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and
most of them talk about how to determine the amount of weight
to be lifted initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll need?

I realize there are some variables here, but it would be great if there were
a percentage-of-body-weight rough estimation of what riders should
eventually be lifting for some key exercises like:
squat (free weight)
hamstring curl
calf raise
shallow leg press
deadlift
situp
back extension
bench press
seat row

If I were a competitive cyclist I'd drop everything but the squats, the situps,
and the back extensions.

Don't worry about weight - focus on handling what you can in good form and add
weight when you can. Cycle off the lifting not because you're strong but because
you need to drop your training load.

As as pointed out earlier this year in here, what you want to do is build muscle
you can then train for cycling, but only if a lack of strength is one of your
weaknesses. When you train for strength in the weightroom, especially if you're
a endurance athlete barely running a caloric surplus, most of the adaption will
be neural which won't translate to squat grin on the bike.

An excellent hypertrophy training program can be found at:

http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

If you have enough strength to go fast as you want, you don't need to lift
unless you enjoy it or have some other issue (like low back pain) that it can
help you with.


--

Scott Johnson
"be a man ,stop looking for handouts , eat ,lift and shut your mouth"
-John Carlo

"kitchen" wrote in message
...

Various cyclist training programs include weight lifting, and
most of them talk about how to determine the amount of weight
to be lifted initially.

But has anyone seen any guidelines on setting a "target weight load"
for cyclists on these exercises--perhaps based on body weight? For
instance, if I'm squatting 150% of my body weight, do I need to continue
to build on that or have I already built more strength there than I'll
need?

You'll only ever use that strength in a start (and perhaps if you sprint
from a low speed), so you could argue you didn't need that much strength. On
the other hand, I find I ride better if I'm never anywhere near my strength
limits.

I realize there are some variables here, but it would be great if there
were
a percentage-of-body-weight rough estimation of what riders should
eventually be lifting for some key exercises like:
squat (free weight)

150% is loads.

hamstring curl

100% would be good, but do you really need that much strength?

calf raise

Don't bother.

shallow leg press

Depending on what you mean by shallow, about 2-300%.

deadlift

150%, assuming you're doing real DL not SLDL.

situp

You probably ought to do some since they're usually good for long-term
health, but you don't really need them.

back extension

Ditto. And don't try to go for maxes, you'll damage yourself.

bench press
seat row

You're not using those muscles (unless you yank yourself off the handlebars
or dislocate your shoulders when you push the pedals!) so don't bother.
They'll only make you heavier.


IMO, you only really want to do deadlift and leg press for cycling, plus
situps / other abs exercise, back extensions for general health. And you
don't really need DL too much unless you're doing a lot of sprinting out of
the saddle up hills.


Peter

AFAIK, Joe Friel is the only coach who has put forth guidelines like those
you are seeking - see his 'Bible'.

Happen to know what those are? I don't have the book.


Me, I would say that if you're strong enough to actually climb onto your
bike, that's probably strong enough. ;-)

Thanks. I promise not to put too much faith in weight lifting. ;-)
I've been racing for a couple years, and I do put in many thousands
of miles on the road each year, but I've just noticed that my
endurance lasts a little longer on climbs when I've been tuning
up in the weight room (especially short climbs). So I wondered
if any coach had guidelines on "how much would help".