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Speed cameras to be implemented and red light cameras to be removed



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 16th 13, 02:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Speed cameras to be implemented and red light cameras to be removed

On 10/15/2013 7:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On Monday, October 14, 2013 10:10:27 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:

You're in the UK... don't know how it is there, but here things are
definitely predatory. Especially with the red light cameras, the yellow
intervals are often well short of the ITE guideline, giving you a choice
between panic stopping (and risking a rear-ender from the guy behind you
who's not expecting you to do so) and making an involuntary donation to
the highway fund.

Fortunately at least some states (VA for one) are recognizing this and
taking steps to keep the camera companies in check. (Oh, yeah, the
cameras are generally operated by private, for-profit firms.)


I happened to be browsing through some Ohio traffic laws. I found
that Ohio has a law that states that if a red light camera is
installed, the yellow light phase has to be exceed the normal
(standard) yellow time by one second. That seems fair to me.


That surely smells like a reaction to abuse, whether in Ohio or elsewhere.

And I don't have a problem with a private firm makes some money by
enforcing traffic laws. We can't afford to station cops at every red
light, or have radar patrols on every road, so we now have near-zero
enforcement, with predictable results: people who think it's their
constitutional right to disobey the laws.


Private law enforcement is a *huge* conflict of interest. If there have
to be speed cameras, they should be run by a government, and someone
should hold that government's feet to the fire to prevent
revenue-seeking rule changes.



Private theft vs government theft may be a distinction
without a difference.

"More cameras mean fewer T-bone crashes and more rear-end
collisions. In other words, the safety issue cuts both ways.
But the revenue issue goes in a single clear direction —
from your wallet to City Hall's pocket. So it's not about
the safety. It's about the cash."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...gle-collisions

How significant is that cash? City of Chicago drew $72
million in revenue from red light cameras in 2012. No wonder
yellow lights are shorter.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #2  
Old October 16th 13, 04:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Speed cameras to be implemented and red light cameras to be removed

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:44:04 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

"More cameras mean fewer T-bone crashes and more rear-end
collisions. In other words, the safety issue cuts both ways.


I'd _much_ rather be hit from behind by a tailgater as I stop for a red light, than by a red light runner crashing into my driver's door. Assured Clear Distance liability is harder for the miscreant to weasel out of, and my injuries are likely to be much less serious.

But the revenue issue goes in a single clear direction �
from your wallet to City Hall's pocket. So it's not about
the safety. It's about the cash."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...gle-collisions


It's easy to find fact-free editorializing by people who want to disobey traffic laws.

I am curious about how these cameras are applied in other countries.

- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old October 16th 13, 06:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Speed cameras to be implemented and red light cameras to be removed

AMuzi writes:

On 10/15/2013 7:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On Monday, October 14, 2013 10:10:27 PM UTC-4, Nate Nagel wrote:

You're in the UK... don't know how it is there, but here things are
definitely predatory. Especially with the red light cameras, the yellow
intervals are often well short of the ITE guideline, giving you a choice
between panic stopping (and risking a rear-ender from the guy behind you
who's not expecting you to do so) and making an involuntary donation to
the highway fund.

Fortunately at least some states (VA for one) are recognizing this and
taking steps to keep the camera companies in check. (Oh, yeah, the
cameras are generally operated by private, for-profit firms.)

I happened to be browsing through some Ohio traffic laws. I found
that Ohio has a law that states that if a red light camera is
installed, the yellow light phase has to be exceed the normal
(standard) yellow time by one second. That seems fair to me.


That surely smells like a reaction to abuse, whether in Ohio or elsewhere.

And I don't have a problem with a private firm makes some money by
enforcing traffic laws. We can't afford to station cops at every red
light, or have radar patrols on every road, so we now have near-zero
enforcement, with predictable results: people who think it's their
constitutional right to disobey the laws.


Private law enforcement is a *huge* conflict of interest. If there have
to be speed cameras, they should be run by a government, and someone
should hold that government's feet to the fire to prevent
revenue-seeking rule changes.



Private theft vs government theft may be a distinction without a
difference.


Maybe, but private collection is one additional step further away from
accountability. Private traffic enforcement is the modern equivalent of
tax farming.

--
 




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