Fixed BB cup removal

1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to remove
it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.

I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin spanner, but the
cup is very well hardened.

To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount it
somewhere farther from the wall...

Per
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
the nut-washers-bolt tool like
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips...btool-bolt.jpg
tightens real good on the bike, but with _lots_ of torque, continues
only to tighten to itself, never turning the BB cup. It's probably a
1/2" bolt, with a single flat washer on each side.

Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other tricks for
removing it?
--
Rick "Maybe a BFH" Onanian

Rick Onanian wrote:
1974 Raleigh Sport.

That's "Sports" not "Sport."

Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to remove
it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.

I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin spanner, but the
cup is very well hardened.

To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount it
somewhere farther from the wall...

Per
http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
the nut-washers-bolt tool like
http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/images/bbtool-bolt.jpg
tightens real good on the bike, but with _lots_ of torque, continues
only to tighten to itself, never turning the BB cup. It's probably a
1/2" bolt, with a single flat washer on each side.

That may not be strong enough, these are in there really tight. The
fixed cup is not intended to be removed for maintenance, only for the
rare occasions when replacement is needed.

Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other tricks for
removing it?

That's a left thread. Removing it by tightening the nut on the outside
of the bottom bracket, if you're using the bolt trick as illustrated.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom for the BB specs.

Sheldon "Nottingham" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Rick Onanian wrote:

1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to remove
it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.

I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin spanner, but the
cup is very well hardened.

To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount it
somewhere farther from the wall...

Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other tricks for
removing it?

A proper fixed cup spanner has always worked for me, but I expect
they're getting hard to find in these days of Shimano BBs. I'd offer to
give you mine, but it's got my 15mm pedal spanner on the other end!

It's a LH thread by the way, so you must turn clockwise.

Rick Onanian wrote:

1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to remove
it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.

I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin spanner, but the
cup is very well hardened.

To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount it
somewhere farther from the wall...


Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other tricks for
removing it?

I already answered this in an earlier posting.

Zog The Undeniable wrote:

A proper fixed cup spanner has always worked for me, but I expect
they're getting hard to find in these days of Shimano BBs. I'd offer to
give you mine, but it's got my 15mm pedal spanner on the other end!

Those won't fit Rick's Raleigh 26 TPI cups, because they don't have the
protruding lip with 36 mm flats of a standard fixed cup.

Instead, the face of the cup has a raised ridge 5/8" (16 mm) wide by
1/16" (1.6 mm) tall. There's probably a special tool for this buried in
the rubble of what used to be the largest bicycle factory in the world,
in Nottingham, but I've never seen one.

Small hand wrenches exist for this, such as the Park HCW-11, but they
are not sufficiently manly to work on the fixed cups.

See: http://www.parktool.com/tools/HCW_11BIG.shtml

Sheldon "Big Bolt" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
| If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough! |
| --BOB Simon |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Carl Fogel wrote:

Dear Rick,

You lucky devil! This sounds like a perfect
opportunity to invest in one of these vises,
which rotate in two planes:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=5655

It's a bit like a bicycle workstand.

Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and
little will defeat it. I bought mine a few
years ago when my old vise mistook me for
Chalo Colina and broke. Couldn't be happier.

Ooooh, I've got one of these, but my previous source doesn't have them
anymore. Delighted to find a new source.

This is a wonderful piece of Stalinist machinery...no great precision,
not really high quality but LOTS and LOTS of metal to make up for it.

I just love mine, and the hex jaws are perfect for holding a freewheel
puller (I did have to drill out the area under those jaws for axle
clearance though.)

Be prepared that the freight may cost as much as the vise, but it's
still a fabulous value.

Sheldon "Solidity" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------+
| I don't need instructions, I have a hammer. |
| -- T.W. Wier |
+-----------------------------------------------+
BOB 11/9/98, 7/22/01, 3/8/02 Classic 1/25/02 CRW 10/19/97 2/26/04 RBM
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On 19 Mar 2004 12:16:51 -0800, (Carl Fogel)
wrote:
You lucky devil! This sounds like a perfect
opportunity to invest in one of these vises,
which rotate in two planes:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=5655

Viciously,
Carl Fogel

Thanks a lot...now I've gone and gotten drool all over my keyboard.
--
Rick Onanian

SNIP Carl Fogel posted: "invest in one of these vises, which rotate i
two planes: http://www.harborfreight.com ..... Item number 5655 It's
bit like a bicycle workstand

Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and little will defeat it.
bought mine a few years ago when my old vise mistook me for Chalo Colin
and broke. Couldn't be happier.
__________________________________________________ _
Then Sheldon chimed in

" Ooooh, I've got one of these, but my previous source doesn't have the
anymore. Delighted to find a new source

This is a wonderful piece of Stalinist machinery...no great precision
not really high quality but LOTS and LOTS of metal to make up for it

I just love mine, and the hex jaws are perfect for holding a freewhee
puller (I did have to drill out the area under those jaws for axl
clearance though.

Be prepared that the freight may cost as much as the vise, but it'
still a fabulous value.

Sheldon "Solidity" Brown +----------------------------------------------
SNIP

Harbor Freight has interesting ways of doing business. Pay less freigh
as you buy more. You don't pay more than an handling feee when you
order is $50 or more. Since the vice is $49+.... just order somethin
else you want and shipping is NAD

I feel like "Tim the tool man" ...grunt .... grunt.... grunt.... well
you get the ide


-

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:43:17 -0500, Sheldon Brown
wrote:
Rick Onanian wrote:
1974 Raleigh Sport.
That's "Sports" not "Sport."

I stand corrected.

That may not be strong enough, these are in there really tight. The
fixed cup is not intended to be removed for maintenance, only for the
rare occasions when replacement is needed.

I ended up adding two additional washers on the nut side, and it was
sufficient. Once again, I forgot to measure the bolt before posting,
but it's head and nut are 9/16"; so in fact, it's shank is 3/8".

With the extra washers, removal required lots of torque, but was
successful -- apparently without damaging anything other than
washers.

Now that I've conquered it...anybody want a dark green mixte 1974
Raleigh Sports frame? It was picked up for me at a yard sale, for me
to scavenge the hub and a couple other items. I don't intend to use
the frame. I will, of course, be happy to put the cups back in now
that I've shown them who's boss...

It looks much like
http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/01/86/61/e0_1_b.JPG
but is not nearly as clean or shiny.

+--------------------------------------------------------+
| One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

You can't go wrong quoting Heinlein at me.
--
Rick Onanian

daveornee wrote:
SNIP Carl Fogel posted: "invest in one of these vises, which rotate in
two planes: http://www.harborfreight.com ..... Item number 5655 It's a
bit like a bicycle workstand.
Mount it on the corner of a workbench, and little will defeat it. I
bought mine a few years ago when my old vise mistook me for Chalo Colina
and broke. Couldn't be happier."
__________________________________________________ __
Then Sheldon chimed in:
" Ooooh, I've got one of these, but my previous source doesn't have them
anymore. Delighted to find a new source.
This is a wonderful piece of Stalinist machinery...no great precision,
not really high quality but LOTS and LOTS of metal to make up for it.
I just love mine, and the hex jaws are perfect for holding a freewheel
puller (I did have to drill out the area under those jaws for axle
clearance though.)
Be prepared that the freight may cost as much as the vise, but it's
still a fabulous value."
Sheldon "Solidity" Brown +-----------------------------------------------
SNIP
Harbor Freight has interesting ways of doing business. Pay less freight
as you buy more. You don't pay more than an handling feee when your
order is $50 or more. Since the vice is $49+.... just order something
else you want and shipping is NADA
I feel like "Tim the tool man" ...grunt .... grunt.... grunt.... well,
you get the idea


Dear Sheldon and Dave

Like Leona, self-absorbed and undeservedly fortunate people like m
tend to forget you little people, who pay freight charges, taxes
and so forth

You see, my Harbor Freight store is less than five minutes away, close
than the grocery store

Oh, dear, I just looked--no Harbor Freight stores in all o
Massachusetts. None in Western Springs, Illinois, either

(Pause for unseemly gloating.

What it makes it all the sweeter is that Pueblo's Harbor Freight too
over the site of King Lumber, an alleged hardware store whose outrage
still cause my blood pressure to rise

("Sorry, we can't sell you that dusty garage door spring that you spen
half an hour finding because it hasn't been inventoried yet--come bac
next week."

So even when Harbor Freight doesn't have what I'm looking for, I stil
get to enjoy a vengeful little dance on my way out over the grave o
King Lumber

Carl Foge


-

Rick Onanian wrote:

1974 Raleigh Sport. Right-side fixed BB cup. I don't need to remove
it, but I don't want it to defeat me either.

I tried drilling partial holes in the cup for a pin spanner, but the
cup is very well hardened.

To try a bench vise, I'd have to remove the vise and mount it
somewhere farther from the wall...

Per
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
the nut-washers-bolt tool like
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips...btool-bolt.jpg
tightens real good on the bike, but with _lots_ of torque, continues
only to tighten to itself, never turning the BB cup. It's probably a
1/2" bolt, with a single flat washer on each side.

Which direction is this cup threaded? Are there any other tricks for
removing it?
--
Rick "Maybe a BFH" Onanian

The Raleigh Sports in 1974 has a painted-in right cup . The
lip is small and the cup was mounted before the frame was
painted. The cup has 16mm=5/8" flats. Raleigh's tool bolts
through the BB holding the cup firmly from both sides and is
driven from its 1-1/8" wrench flats.

So use a BFW not a BFH. It removes clockwise, 1.370x26tpi

(When using a vise, hang the frame out from the workbench,
swing a small arc and reposition.)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971