Gatorskins: Joerg Wins!

On 2017-03-31 00:46, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.


True. Even if it's not weight weenie stuff price does not guarantee
quality. I remember people razzing me that buying a $2k MTB was not
smart, that I should have spent at least $4k for this or that bike and
yada, yada, yada. Turns out the $4k+ bikes of friends break and wear
just about as much as mine and with the same symptoms. Rear shock mounts
going klock-klock and so on.


I'm not at all saying that the cheapest stuff is the strongests. But it
may be that there's some sweet spot, a price point at which the
equipment is good enough in material and design to be strong and work
well, but not so "high class" as to require careful use to prevent failure.

Well, you can buy a low end Rolex watch for about $5,000 these days.
Or a low end Casio G-Shock for ~$99. Which one keeps the best time one
wonders :-)


My $10 Nokia 2115i :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-03-30 17:56, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 08:27:15 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-29 23:59, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 17:15:18 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-29 16:42, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

[...]


Trade in the bicycle for a motorcycle and get someone to afix a pedal
drive to it to cure all your bicycle riding woes.


Funny thing is that the MTB wheels hold up rather well. No busted spokes
there yet and that bike gets used hard. It took me a while to find
decvent tires but I've got those now.


Well, why not modify your rode bike to take the 26 inch wheels. As you
mentioned (I think) a 1 inch steerer tube it is likely a steel frame
and the addition of brake bosses which you could use for either Vee or
Canti brakes is a minor project. If one were careful and protected the
stays and fork tubes with wet rags I believe a very minimum of
re-painting would be required. Or if you were really into brakes you
could convert the bike to disks, but with a bit more extensive paint
work :-)

Your problems are not insurmountable.


They aren't but there comes a point where the effort is too much,
especially for an electronics guy with limited tools and skills for
mechanical work.

What do your mechanical skills have to do with bicycle modifications?
There are innumerable people in California that build custom bicycles
who would be glad to add brake bosses to your frame.


If you are willing to pay big bucks.


You state that your 26 inch MTB wheels give you little trouble. I
comment that you could easily modify your road bike to use 26 inch
wheels. You say it is too much trouble.


I do not feel comfortable and safe on 26" wheels. Since the wheels of my
29" MTB are holding up on gnarly turf it is obviously possible to also
build a larger wheel that holds up. Except I can't use those because 29"
MTB all have disc brakes and the rims aren't suitable for rim brakes.
So, I will be looking for a good 700c wheel. Someone here already
pointed out a sturdy rim that is rim-brake compatible.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-03-30 19:15, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2017 3:19 PM, Joerg wrote:

Totally OT: Is there a YouTube video of you playing your fiddle? Or in a
small band?

I doubt it. When we begin playing, most people turn off their cameras
and head for the exit. We've thought about hiring ourselves out for
crowd control.



:-)

That I don't believe ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-03-30 18:51, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 11:35:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-30 10:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 11:30:01 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-29 18:14, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 13:23:44 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-03-29 13:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/29/2017 12:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-29 07:35, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


saw rider weights between 330 and 400lbs (my wife or a
male friend). It was old-tech, too: 140mm rear hub with
36 spokes. I built them, and they worked perfectly,
although we didn't ride the tandem on super-gnarly trail
while being chased by mountain lions.



It depends where you ride. I often have no choice but to
take sections of dirt road and the occasional stretch of
singletrack even with the road bike.

That's not uncommon. To get to the house of one of my best
friends, I usually shortcut through our forest preserve.
Gravel road, single track trail through the forest edge and
then through a grassy meadow, drop down off a curb and ride
on. No problem.

Jobst was famous for riding his road bike where most mountain
bikers feared to go. Photos are online.


So did I, almost since the training wheels had come off. This
is why I always kept a large stash of new spokes. They broke
all the time. While at university all I could afford for
commuting were department road bikes and anything more would
have been stolen anyhow. Each lasted about one year and
afterwards was totally finished. Not a big deal because I could
buy another used one for around $30.

As I said, in my case that often also means cargo on the bike
and that's was really does them in. I can get out of the saddle
but the tens of lbs riding along in back won't.

You talk of Tens of pounds and Jay talks of hundreds of pounds
but your wheels break and his do not?


Hundreds of lbs of cargo?


Strange, isn't it?


No, could be different turf. Just like the guys on the Rubicon
break all sorts of stuff on their SUVs and on mine nothing never
broke in 20 years despite overloaded trips on rough dirt roads. I
wish Mitsubishi would make bicycles of similar sturdiness.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I wonder just how many spokes the Vietnamese broke on those bicycles
they used to haul vast quantities of stuff on the Ho Chi Minh Trail?
Or isthat trail not as rough as yours?


When it got rough they usually pushed it:

http://263i3m2dw9nnf6zqv39ktpr1.wpen...1_1200x480.jpg

They also had among the first fat bikes:

https://i2.wp.com/peteralanlloyd.com...-45.jpg?w=1024

Then they changed to other kinds of cycles:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/ph...aphy/182689829

Have you taken a closer look at classical Asian bicycles? The Bayer
Corporation (the guys that came up with Aspirin) headquarters was very
close to where I grew up so I saw their company bikes a lot. They found
that older style Chinese bicycles outperformed others in terms of
reliability and then bought them by the boatload. Employees were allowed
and encouraged to use them privately as well. Those were very sturdy
beasts, thick spokes, two top tubes in parallel, and so on. Even the
more modern Flying Pigeon has more spokes than usual on the rear wheel
and the whole thing weighs more than 40lbs empty. Guess why they did that.

The Bayer bicycles looked similar to this one, just more stout:

http://www.radioleverkusen.de/images...372463_max.jpg


You talk as though these Bayer bicycles were something unusual. The
Chinese Flying Pigeon PA-08 is still being made and I believe are
available at a shop in Los Angeles or alternately through the Flying
Pigeon web site.


They were a heavier class than the Flying Pigeon.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 31/03/2017 10:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-31 00:46, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo
racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but
because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.


True. Even if it's not weight weenie stuff price does not guarantee
quality. I remember people razzing me that buying a $2k MTB was not
smart, that I should have spent at least $4k for this or that bike and
yada, yada, yada. Turns out the $4k+ bikes of friends break and wear
just about as much as mine and with the same symptoms. Rear shock mounts
going klock-klock and so on.




Weight weenie stuff? Odd that you get upset with people giving you a
hard time because you want to have a bike that is as strong as a car but
you dis people whose priorities are based on performance.

snip

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 31/03/2017 10:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-31 00:46, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo
racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but
because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.


True. Even if it's not weight weenie stuff price does not guarantee
quality. I remember people razzing me that buying a $2k MTB was not
smart, that I should have spent at least $4k for this or that bike and
yada, yada, yada. Turns out the $4k+ bikes of friends break and wear
just about as much as mine and with the same symptoms. Rear shock mounts
going klock-klock and so on.




Weight weenie stuff? Odd that you get upset with people giving you a
hard time because you want to have a bike that is as strong as a car but
you dis people whose priorities are based on performance.

snip

Read his posts and threads from overthe years and you'll see that Joerg just likes to complain. After all, nothing, and I do mean NOTHING off the shelf works for Joerg or his friends. Never mind that many use the same stuff for expedition tours and don't have problems with it. Joerg is either abusing his stuff or he's using the wrong stuff for the wrong job such as taking a heavily loaded road bike onto a rough dirt trail and then trying to ride it at speed. Then again, that's abusing your equipment isn't it?

Cheers

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 12:24:32 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 31/03/2017 10:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-31 00:46, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo
racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but
because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.


True. Even if it's not weight weenie stuff price does not guarantee
quality. I remember people razzing me that buying a $2k MTB was not
smart, that I should have spent at least $4k for this or that bike and
yada, yada, yada. Turns out the $4k+ bikes of friends break and wear
just about as much as mine and with the same symptoms. Rear shock mounts
going klock-klock and so on.




Weight weenie stuff? Odd that you get upset with people giving you a
hard time because you want to have a bike that is as strong as a car but
you dis people whose priorities are based on performance.

snip

Read his posts and threads from overthe years and you'll see that Joerg just likes to complain. After all, nothing, and I do mean NOTHING off the shelf works for Joerg or his friends. Never mind that many use the same stuff for expedition tours and don't have problems with it. Joerg is either abusing his stuff or he's using the wrong stuff for the wrong job such as taking a heavily loaded road bike onto a rough dirt trail and then trying to ride it at speed. Then again, that's abusing your equipment isn't it?

Cheers

He's over-loading an early '80s mid-fi European sport racing bike. It's like complaining about a BMW 320i being crappy off road. For under $1K USD he could buy an aluminum gravel bike that would solve all his problems.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 12:24:27 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 31/03/2017 10:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-31 00:46, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo
racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but
because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.


True. Even if it's not weight weenie stuff price does not guarantee
quality. I remember people razzing me that buying a $2k MTB was not
smart, that I should have spent at least $4k for this or that bike and
yada, yada, yada. Turns out the $4k+ bikes of friends break and wear
just about as much as mine and with the same symptoms. Rear shock mounts
going klock-klock and so on.




Weight weenie stuff? Odd that you get upset with people giving you a
hard time because you want to have a bike that is as strong as a car but
you dis people whose priorities are based on performance.

snip

Read his posts and threads from overthe years and you'll see that Joerg just likes to complain. After all, nothing, and I do mean NOTHING off the shelf works for Joerg or his friends. Never mind that many use the same stuff for expedition tours and don't have problems with it. Joerg is either abusing his stuff or he's using the wrong stuff for the wrong job such as taking a heavily loaded road bike onto a rough dirt trail and then trying to ride it at speed. Then again, that's abusing your equipment isn't it?

Cheers

I've always assumed that it was a macho thing - See there! I can too
break a bicycle".

The "Man of Steel" as it were, Faster than a speeding bullet. More
powerful than a locomotive. Able to leap tall buildings in a single
bound ...
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/31/2017 3:46 AM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-30 11:47, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/30/2017 11:15 AM, Joerg wrote:

I have thick spokes and good rims right now. However, spokes keep going
every now and then, on the rear wheel. The "self-infliction" comes from
the fact that I often use my bikes as ... gasp ... utility vehicles.
Bringing heavy packages to Fedex when I couldn't make the pickup cut-off
time, schlepping parts from the valley up here, etc. This includes
sections where chugging uphill in low gear is required, almost standing
in the pedals.

Joerg, I think you're overestimating your machismo. I use my bikes as
utility vehicles as well. My last grocery run, just a couple days ago,
had me carrying probably 50 pounds. It far exceeded the capacity of my
large shopping panniers, partly because I realized at the last minute
that we needed a big box of cat litter. I ended up with stuff lashed on
top of the panniers and overstuffing the handlebar bag. (And since it's
so important to you: yes, a dozen beers were part of the load.)


I am not macho but this is standard fare for me. I have an ESGE aluminum
rack on the road bike and panniers on that. This is where tools, water,
small loads of purchase stuff rides. The flat section on top is where
machine parts for client, Fedex boxes, supplies from the valley and such
ride.


I also spent decades biking to and from work, over famously potholed
streets, often with piles of books and lab reports to grade. I do
remember breaking two rear axles over the years, but almost never a
spoke.


I broke several axles on the old MTB and that was because it had one of
those dreaded freewheels where the right bearing is too far inside.
Strangely I do not break spokes on MTB but I broke lots of them on road
bikes, maybe because they have no suspension.

Whenever this frame gives up (if it ever does) I will transfer to a
cyclocross bike with disc brakes and then I can use MTB wheels. That
should fix the problem for good.

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.

I'm not at all saying that the cheapest stuff is the strongests. But it
may be that there's some sweet spot, a price point at which the
equipment is good enough in material and design to be strong and work
well, but not so "high class" as to require careful use to prevent failure.

Well, you can buy a low end Rolex watch for about $5,000 these days.
Or a low end Casio G-Shock for ~$99. Which one keeps the best time one
wonders :-)

Speaking of watches, I'd love to find an old Casio 694894 in good
condition. I've never found another watch I liked as much.

And about mechanical watches: If anyone has repair instructions for a
Landeron 248 chronograph movement, I'd be interested. I'm a bit afraid
to dive into it by trial and error.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/31/2017 3:24 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 31/03/2017 10:42 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-03-31 00:46, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 22:14:53 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/30/2017 3:12 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]

BTW, I am by far not the only one with wear failures. The extreme is a
friend who rides around 10k miles per year. He broke frames, BBs,
spokes, numerous hubs, cranks and so on. Everything he rides is
high-class expensive stuff, he only rides on paved surfaces yet it
breaks. He only weighs around 180lbs and doesn't even have a cargo
racks
on his bikes. However, he sure steps on it and I can't keep up with him
for much more than 30 minutes. Not because of lack of muscle but
because
then I am out of breath.

About high class, expensive stuff: I think spending lots of money
doesn't necessarily mean you're getting more reliability. In some
cases, you're getting lighter equipment that is supposed to produce
performance benefits, but which probably has lower safety factors. IOW,
the designers cut things closer to the minimum in order to advertise
lightness.


True. Even if it's not weight weenie stuff price does not guarantee
quality. I remember people razzing me that buying a $2k MTB was not
smart, that I should have spent at least $4k for this or that bike and
yada, yada, yada. Turns out the $4k+ bikes of friends break and wear
just about as much as mine and with the same symptoms. Rear shock mounts
going klock-klock and so on.




Weight weenie stuff? Odd that you get upset with people giving you a
hard time because you want to have a bike that is as strong as a car but
you dis people whose priorities are based on performance.

snip

Read his posts and threads from overthe years and you'll see that Joerg just likes to complain. After all, nothing, and I do mean NOTHING off the shelf works for Joerg or his friends. Never mind that many use the same stuff for expedition tours and don't have problems with it. Joerg is either abusing his stuff or he's using the wrong stuff for the wrong job such as taking a heavily loaded road bike onto a rough dirt trail and then trying to ride it at speed. Then again, that's abusing your equipment isn't it?

I've wondered if part of it is just not adapting his riding style to the
terrain. I've known riders who tended to just plow fully seated through
any surface features that popped up in front of them. OTOH I've known
others that scanned ahead to plot the smoothest course through the
potholes or rocks, unweighted the saddle or stood up on flexed knees and
elbows to lessen shock, wheelied or hopped over unavoidable obstacles,
etc. I think the latter group breaks far fewer spokes and other components.

And before Joerg talks about his macho loads, in my younger days I
routinely jumped two different sets of railroad tracks despite the big
briefcase on the back. Even with a load, one can adapt.

--
- Frank Krygowski