Ribble Valley Juniors

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:57:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On 28 Aug, 12:00, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:59:47 -0700 (PDT), David Martin

wrote:
On Aug 28, 9:19 am, judith wrote:

If a junior member of the club was to ask your advice as an
experienced cyclist - does wearing a cycle helmet overall reduce the
risk of injury to the head - what would you say?

In some circumstances yes, in others it may increase the risk. It is
less effective the more severe the impact.
Wearing a helmet is no substitute for sensible riding. If you wear
one, wear it properly.
Treat it as only reducing minor scratches and bruises, anything over
that is a lottery.

..d

Would you say that to a "junior member" of a cycling club?

And what would your actual advice to this junior member be as to
whether they should wear a helmet or not?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

My advice would be read UK Rec Cycling, specifically the posts in the
thread 'Cycle h*lm*t saved my life (again)' Paying particular
attention to the replies given in response to Judith Smith's enquiries
on this subject, you will then have a superfluity of information on
which to base your decisions.

Sniper8052

Thanks for the lack of contribution:
still dodging I see

Why can you not just answer a simple question?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

On 28 Aug, 13:28, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:57:27 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On 28 Aug, 12:00, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:59:47 -0700 (PDT), David Martin

wrote:
On Aug 28, 9:19 am, judith wrote:

If a junior member of the club was to ask your advice as an
experienced cyclist - does wearing a cycle helmet overall reduce the
risk of injury to the head - what would you say?

In some circumstances yes, in others it may increase the risk. It is
less effective the more severe the impact.
Wearing a helmet is no substitute for sensible riding. If you wear
one, wear it properly.
Treat it as only reducing minor scratches and bruises, anything over
that is a lottery.

..d

Would you say that to a "junior member" of a cycling club?

And what would your actual advice to this junior member be as to
whether they should wear a helmet or not?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

My advice would be read UK Rec Cycling, specifically the posts in the
thread 'Cycle h*lm*t saved my life (again)' Paying particular
attention to the replies given in response to Judith Smith's enquiries
on this subject, you will then have a superfluity of information on
which to base your decisions.

Sniper8052

Thanks for the lack of contribution:
still dodging I see

Why can you not just answer a simple question?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

I was pointing out that your repeated requests for information in that
thread from those better informed and/or better able to use the
internet to conduct research than yourself had created a valuable
resource of material and references, in an accessible and singular
location, in response to one who had sought similar answers to her
questions.

Is that not then the case?

Sniper8052

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:53:11 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On 28 Aug, 13:28, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:57:27 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On 28 Aug, 12:00, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:59:47 -0700 (PDT), David Martin

wrote:
On Aug 28, 9:19 am, judith wrote:

If a junior member of the club was to ask your advice as an
experienced cyclist - does wearing a cycle helmet overall reduce the
risk of injury to the head - what would you say?

In some circumstances yes, in others it may increase the risk. It is
less effective the more severe the impact.
Wearing a helmet is no substitute for sensible riding. If you wear
one, wear it properly.
Treat it as only reducing minor scratches and bruises, anything over
that is a lottery.

..d

Would you say that to a "junior member" of a cycling club?

And what would your actual advice to this junior member be as to
whether they should wear a helmet or not?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

My advice would be read UK Rec Cycling, specifically the posts in the
thread 'Cycle h*lm*t saved my life (again)' Paying particular
attention to the replies given in response to Judith Smith's enquiries
on this subject, you will then have a superfluity of information on
which to base your decisions.

Sniper8052

Thanks for the lack of contribution:
still dodging I see

Why can you not just answer a simple question?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

I was pointing out that your repeated requests for information in that
thread from those better informed and/or better able to use the
internet to conduct research than yourself had created a valuable
resource of material and references, in an accessible and singular
location, in response to one who had sought similar answers to her
questions.

Is that not then the case?

Sniper8052


I am awfully sorry - I thought you were trying to take the ****.

(I have had to keep asking as no-one seems to be able to actually come
up with a proper reference)

Any way - I don't mind where you answer the questions I have asked -
here or there.

There does however seem to be a reluctance to do so.

Can you answer that simple question:

What would you say to a junior member who asked you if they should
wear a cycle helmet or not?

Perhaps you can then take off your cycle helmet for one minute and put
on your policeman's helmet:

Are police officers and CSOs who cycle whilst on duty compelled to
wear cycle helmets?

a straight answer rather than evasion would be appreciated.

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

On 28 Aug, 14:14, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:53:11 -0700 (PDT), "



wrote:
On 28 Aug, 13:28, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:57:27 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
On 28 Aug, 12:00, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:59:47 -0700 (PDT), David Martin

wrote:
On Aug 28, 9:19 am, judith wrote:

If a junior member of the club was to ask your advice as an
experienced cyclist - does wearing a cycle helmet overall reduce the
risk of injury to the head - what would you say?

In some circumstances yes, in others it may increase the risk. It is
less effective the more severe the impact.
Wearing a helmet is no substitute for sensible riding. If you wear
one, wear it properly.
Treat it as only reducing minor scratches and bruises, anything over
that is a lottery.

..d

Would you say that to a "junior member" of a cycling club?

And what would your actual advice to this junior member be as to
whether they should wear a helmet or not?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

My advice would be read UK Rec Cycling, specifically the posts in the
thread 'Cycle h*lm*t saved my life (again)' Paying particular
attention to the replies given in response to Judith Smith's enquiries
on this subject, you will then have a superfluity of information on
which to base your decisions.

Sniper8052

Thanks for the lack of contribution:
still dodging I see

Why can you not just answer a simple question?

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

I was pointing out that your repeated requests for information in that
thread from those better informed and/or better able to use the
internet to conduct research than yourself had created a valuable
resource of material and references, in an accessible and singular
location, in response to one who had sought similar answers to her
questions.

Is that not then the case?

Sniper8052

I am awfully sorry - I thought you were trying to take the ****.

(I have had to keep asking as no-one seems to be able to actually come
up with a proper reference)

Any way - I don't mind where you answer the questions I have asked -
here or there.

There does however seem to be a reluctance to do so.

Can you answer that simple question:

What would you say to a junior member who asked you if they should
wear a cycle helmet or not?

Perhaps you can then take off your cycle helmet for one minute and put
on your policeman's helmet:

Are police officers and CSOs who cycle whilst on duty compelled to
wear cycle helmets?

a straight answer rather than evasion would be appreciated.

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

What would you say to a junior member who asked you if they should
wear a cycle helmet or not?

I would say there is a wealth of information on the internet and that
a good source of information would be the links and discussion that
had been posted on UK.Rec.Cycling in the thread previously referred
to.

That any decision had to be a personal decision and based on the
readers perception of the material presented, there being no consensus
to provide a clear answer either about safety or efficacy.

Police officers and PCSO's who ride cycles are compelled to use them
as policy states they must.

Sniper8052

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:28:08 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

snip
--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

What would you say to a junior member who asked you if they should
wear a cycle helmet or not?

I would say there is a wealth of information on the internet and that
a good source of information would be the links and discussion that
had been posted on UK.Rec.Cycling in the thread previously referred
to.

That any decision had to be a personal decision and based on the
readers perception of the material presented, there being no consensus
to provide a clear answer either about safety or efficacy.

I thought that there would be a very large wriggle (or is it wiggle)
here.

So a serving police officer who when asked by a junior member of a
cycling club for advice on whether they should wear a cycle helmet or
not - would refer them to the internet.

Very good - is that official police policy?



Police officers and PCSO's who ride cycles are compelled to use them
as policy states they must.


Excellent - thank you.

(Any views on this policy?)

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

On 28 Aug, 14:35, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:28:08 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:

snip

--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

What would you say to a junior member who asked you if they should
wear a cycle helmet or not?

I would say there is a wealth of information on the internet and that
a good source of information would be the links and discussion that
had been posted on UK.Rec.Cycling in the thread previously referred
to.

That any decision had to be a personal decision and based on the
readers perception of the material presented, there being no consensus
to provide a clear answer either about safety or efficacy.

I thought that there would be a very large wriggle (or is it wiggle)
here.

So a serving police officer who when asked by a junior member of a
cycling club for advice on whether they should wear a cycle helmet or
not - would refer them to the internet.

Very good - is that official police policy?

Police officers and PCSO's who ride cycles are compelled to use them
as policy states they must.

Excellent - thank you.


--

So a serving police officer who when asked by a junior member of a
cycling club for advice on whether they should wear a cycle helmet or
not - would refer them to the internet.

Very good - is that official police policy?

I don't think there is a policy on giving impartial advice on cycle
helmets, any how you asked what I would say not what I would say as a
police officer, which would not be different in any case.

(Any views on this policy?)

It is misguided.

Sniper8052

On Aug 28, 12:00*pm, judith wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:59:47 -0700 (PDT), David Martin

wrote:
On Aug 28, 9:19 am, judith wrote:

If a junior member of the club was to ask your advice as an
experienced cyclist - does wearing a cycle helmet overall reduce the
risk of injury to the head - what would you say?

In some circumstances yes, in others it may increase the risk. It is
less effective the more severe the impact.
Wearing a helmet is no substitute for sensible riding. If you wear
one, wear it properly.
Treat it as only reducing minor scratches and bruises, anything over
that is a lottery.

..d

Would you say that to a "junior member" of a cycling club?

Yes. I presume you don't mean junior (16-17 yo) but youth (under 16).
Obviously that is a potted version of the position. Typically the
answer is the abbreviated version "If you want to. Ride sensibly and
don't believe the helmet will do you any good". Excetions apply if
they are wanting to participate in a club event where helmets are
mandatory.

And what would your actual advice to this junior member be *as to
whether they should wear a helmet or not?

For them to make up their own mind and think about what they are
doing.

...d

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:48:35 -0700 (PDT), David Martin
wrote:

snip

Yes. I presume you don't mean junior (16-17 yo) but youth (under 16).
Obviously that is a potted version of the position. Typically the
answer is the abbreviated version "If you want to. Ride sensibly and
don't believe the helmet will do you any good". Excetions apply if
they are wanting to participate in a club event where helmets are
mandatory.

And what would your actual advice to this junior member be *as to
whether they should wear a helmet or not?

For them to make up their own mind and think about what they are
doing.

..d


Ah - I see - a cop out - I think that is frankly pathetic

You are unwilling to offer a (say) 12 year old who has asked you
(perhaps as an instructor ) whether they should wear a helmet or not -
to make up their own mind.

I bet that goes down well with the parents.



--
you can either promote cycling or promote helmets,the two are
incompatible. (Guy Chapman)

wrote:


Police officers and PCSO's who ride cycles are compelled to use them
as policy states they must.

Part of the uniform no doubt!