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  #141  
Old September 21st 08, 02:22 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_5_]
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Default Islabikes new range

Adam Lea wrote:

"JNugent" wrote:


But apart from that, and since I am not (in general) dismissive of rising
living standards for the masses for whom you have such obvious disdain -


Congratulations, you've just won strawman of the year award.


I fear not, especially as the quoted text is no evidence of the creation of a
strawman.
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  #142  
Old September 21st 08, 02:23 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_5_]
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Adam Lea wrote:

"David Damerell" wrote:
Quoting Ace :
wrote:
Quoting Ace :


People found out what a tremendously useful, convenient and fun thing
a car can be.


Three thousand people a year find out, permanently, that that's not the
case - many of those deaths are caused by the dangerous ****wits who
think operating heavy machinery in public is a good time to have fun. I'm
guessing you're one of them, too.


Really? You guess all that from one post?


That you think operating lethally dangerous machinery in public is "fun"?
Yes. You said so. That that's a stupid thing to think, and anyone who
wasn't caught up in this insane car culture would be constantly nervous
and careful when in a position where they were likely to kill or main
their fellow man? Yes, that too.


Are you effectively saying that to enjoy driving is morally wrong?


There may be another meaning to it, but if there is, it's very well-disguised.
  #143  
Old September 21st 08, 02:24 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_5_]
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Phil W Lee wrote:
Philly considered Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:14:40 +0100 the
perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee wrote:
JNugent considered Fri, 19 Sep 2008
09:06:39 +0100 the perfect time to write:

Peter Clinch wrote:

David Damerell wrote:
That you think operating lethally dangerous machinery in public is "fun"?
I do, reasonably often. I think a lot of other people do too. Just
because it's /potentially/ lethally dangerous doesn't mean I'm going to
kill someone enjoying the heady mix of scenery and lovely driving on
e.g. the A701 down to Moffat.
I enjoy working with bill-hooks and axes at times too.
Although it's not personal my cup of tea (as a born and bred townie), I also
hear that some people derive great pleasure from hunting and shooting, using
potentially deadly weapons.

But DD presumably thinks that such things are highly immoral and destructive
of society.
I would argue that both of these are incompatible with crowded areas,
making them ideal comparisons to the motor car.

So private cars are "incompatible" with the people who wish to use them?
Damn, Phil, you've uttered some pretty stupid crap (I'm still laughing
at your 'forgery' complaint) but this is a corker even by your standards!


Classic strawman.
The discussion was about using private cars for FUN.


And is there anything wrong with having fun?
  #144  
Old September 22nd 08, 05:47 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Paul Rudin[_2_]
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Ace writes:

My 25 min drive to the office isn't exactly what I'd call a 'commute'
in any case.


Why not?


  #145  
Old September 22nd 08, 08:14 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Paul Rudin[_2_]
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Ace writes:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:47:41 +0100, Paul Rudin
wrote:

Ace writes:

My 25 min drive to the office isn't exactly what I'd call a 'commute'
in any case.


Why not?


Two reasons. One, it's a pleasant drive (or ride, but that takes an
hour or more) mostly through very attractive countryside. Two, having
worked in and around London for many years, sometimes commuting via
rail/tube/bus for up to two hours each way, it just doesn't seem to be
worthy of using the same name to describe it.


Shrug, that still fits within any reasonable definition of
"commute". Your enjoyment or otherwise, and the fact that there are
longer commutes, are irrelevant.

We can all make up our own definitions of words ... but it doesn't help
communication :/

  #146  
Old September 22nd 08, 08:26 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Peter Clinch
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David Damerell wrote:

I've never met a cager who thought they _personally_ weren't dangerous,


Well, you haven't ever met me thus far. I'm well aware I'm dangerous in
a car, after all, I've written one off from inattention in the past.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #147  
Old September 22nd 08, 09:15 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
David Martin
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On Sep 22, 8:31*am, Ace wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:14:44 +0100, Paul Rudin



wrote:
Ace writes:


On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:47:41 +0100, Paul Rudin
wrote:


Ace writes:


My 25 min drive to the office isn't exactly what I'd call a 'commute'
in any case.


Why not?


Two reasons. One, it's a pleasant drive (or ride, but that takes an
hour or more) mostly through very attractive countryside. Two, having
worked in and around London for many years, sometimes commuting via
rail/tube/bus for up to two hours each way, it just doesn't seem to be
worthy of using the same name to describe it.


Shrug, that still fits within any reasonable definition of
"commute". Your enjoyment or otherwise, and the fact that there are
longer commutes, are irrelevant.


By that definition anyone who doesn't actually live at their place of
work commutes. "Reasonable" definitions may vary, depending on
personal experience.


The term originally arose from those who would buy a season ticket
rather than individual journey tickets as they could then commute
their travel. Such people became known as commuters, and that term has
spread to all who travel regularly to the same place of work.

...d

  #148  
Old September 22nd 08, 09:57 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Rob Morley
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:15:57 -0700 (PDT)
David Martin wrote:

The term originally arose from those who would buy a season ticket
rather than individual journey tickets as they could then commute
their travel. Such people became known as commuters, and that term has
spread to all who travel regularly to the same place of work.

I'm doubtful of that explanation - the Latin commutare means to switch
or exchange (and is the root of English words such as commutator and
commutative) so it seems more likely to me that it simply refers to the
habitual switching between the locations of home and work.

  #149  
Old September 22nd 08, 01:19 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Tom Anderson
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Rob Morley wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:15:57 -0700 (PDT)
David Martin wrote:

The term originally arose from those who would buy a season ticket
rather than individual journey tickets as they could then commute
their travel. Such people became known as commuters, and that term has
spread to all who travel regularly to the same place of work.


I'm doubtful of that explanation - the Latin commutare means to switch
or exchange (and is the root of English words such as commutator and
commutative) so it seems more likely to me that it simply refers to the
habitual switching between the locations of home and work.


OED sayeth:

commute, v.
b. absol. spec. To purchase and use a commutation-ticket. Also, more
generally, to travel daily or regularly to and from one's place of work in
a city (by any means of conveyance); also transf. and fig. orig. U.S.

1889 Cent. Dict., Commuter, one who commutes. 1906 Daily Chron. 25 Feb. 4
There are many business men who practically divide their time between New
York and Chicago, and commute (the American term for taking season
tickets).

commutation
9. attrib. and Comb., [...] commutation ticket (U.S.), a ticket issued
by a railway company, etc., at a reduced rate, entitling the holder to
travel over a given route a certain number of times or during a certain
period; a season-ticket.

1848 Amer. Railroad Jrnl. 29 July 481/3 Commutation tickets.., costing $5,
are issued at Trenton, signed by B. Fish, which entitles the receiver to
eight passages between Trenton and New Brunswick, by any line on the
route. 1885 Good Words July 450/1 A single Commutation ticket is given,
numbered and dated on the day on which it was issued.

Webster's dictionary of 1913 has to say:

Commutation ticket. A ticket for transportation at a reduced rate in
consideration of some special circumstance, as increase of travel;
specif., a ticket for a certain number of, or for daily, trips between
neighboring places at a reduced rate, such as are commonly used by those
doing business in a city and living in a suburb. Commutation tickets are
excepted from the prohibition against special rates contained in the
Interstate Commerce Act of Feb. 4, 1887 (24 Stat. 379), and in 145 U. S.
263 it was held that party tickets were also excepted as being "obviously
within the commuting principle."

And WordNet:

* S: (n) commutation ticket, season ticket (a ticket good for several
trips or to attend a season of entertainments; sold at a reduced rate)

So it seems that the term 'commuter' definitely does come from a kind of
ticket. Why those tickets are called that is not entirely clear to me, but
it does look more likely that it's to do with their being at a reduced
rate than associated with going back and forth between two places. It's
'commute' in the sense of 'his sentence was commuted to life in prison',
rather than 'what's purple and commutes?' [1].

tom

[1] An Abelian grape.

--
Also, a 'dark future where there is only war!' ... have you seen the
news lately? -- applez
  #150  
Old September 22nd 08, 07:27 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_5_]
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Default Islabikes new range

Ace wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:15:57 -0700 (PDT), David Martin
wrote:

On Sep 22, 8:31 am, Ace wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:14:44 +0100, Paul Rudin



wrote:
Ace writes:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 05:47:41 +0100, Paul Rudin
wrote:
Ace writes:
My 25 min drive to the office isn't exactly what I'd call a 'commute'
in any case.


Shrug, that still fits within any reasonable definition of
"commute". Your enjoyment or otherwise, and the fact that there are
longer commutes, are irrelevant.
By that definition anyone who doesn't actually live at their place of
work commutes. "Reasonable" definitions may vary, depending on
personal experience.

The term originally arose from those who would buy a season ticket
rather than individual journey tickets as they could then commute
their travel. Such people became known as commuters, and that term has
spread to all who travel regularly to the same place of work.


Ahh. Thanks for that.


But there's a bit more to it than that; the term has an overtone of working
in one municipality (usually a city) and working in another. The commuter
commutes from one place to the other.

Tunbridge Wells to London Bridge is a commuter journey. Tufnell Park to
Leicester Square doesn't conjure up the same mental image.
 




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