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ctc and motorcycles



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 22nd 07, 09:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
raisethe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 534
Default ctc and motorcycles

Following on from the problems recently discussed about John Snow as
the new ctc president, I have to point out my considerable displeasure
with the ctc's position on motorbikes.


http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4790

This is currently causing justifiable derision amongst the
motorcycling community and its not hard to see why. The ctc's position
shows classic cyclist inferiority complex. I will not be renewing my
membership when it falls due and recommend that others do likewise.
Indeed, as the organisation appears to be highly commercially (gr?)
motivated, a significant reduction in membership which is explicitly
due to this outrageous policy should soon bring them to heel.

The anti-motorcycling arguments on the link are unsustainable and
should be removed and the ctc's campaigning should be amended
accordingly.

Ads
  #2  
Old March 22nd 07, 10:00 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
iarocu
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default ctc and motorcycles

On 22 Mar, 20:29, "raisethe" wrote:
Following on from the problems recently discussed about John Snow as
the new ctc president, I have to point out my considerable displeasure
with the ctc's position on motorbikes.


Well I have to say I agree with banning motorbikes from bus lanes.

As far as
"motorcycle use will undermine efforts to promote cycling, not only
because those switching to motorcycling might otherwise have switched
to a healthier, safer and cleaner alternative (e.g. cycling)"
that sounds like nonsense to me. Motorbiking like cycling is largely a
choice in which various factors are considered. Personally I have no
problems with motorbikes. All the scary moments I can think of have
involved cars, buses and hgvs.

As far as motorbikes being polluters so what? All motor vehicles
pollute and I don't think the CTC should be getting involved in any
argument about which class of motor vehicles is better than the other.

Iain

  #3  
Old March 22nd 07, 10:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Zog The Undeniable
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 487
Default ctc and motorcycles

raisethe wrote:
Following on from the problems recently discussed about John Snow as
the new ctc president, I have to point out my considerable displeasure
with the ctc's position on motorbikes.


http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4790

This is currently causing justifiable derision amongst the
motorcycling community and its not hard to see why. The ctc's position
shows classic cyclist inferiority complex. I will not be renewing my
membership when it falls due and recommend that others do likewise.
Indeed, as the organisation appears to be highly commercially (gr?)
motivated, a significant reduction in membership which is explicitly
due to this outrageous policy should soon bring them to heel.

The anti-motorcycling arguments on the link are unsustainable and
should be removed and the ctc's campaigning should be amended
accordingly.

Having been deliberately buzzed by a few, I tend to agree with the CTC line.
  #4  
Old March 22nd 07, 10:18 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Peter Fox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default ctc and motorcycles (Don't feed the troll)

A troll wrote a whine about the CTCs position on motorbikes.
Can you hear the sound of hundreds of very tiny violins troll?
--
PETER FOX Not the same since the cardboard box company folded

www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists
  #5  
Old March 22nd 07, 10:25 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Anthony Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default ctc and motorcycles

raisethe wrote:
The anti-motorcycling arguments on the link are unsustainable and
should be removed and the ctc's campaigning should be amended
accordingly.


What is it that you disagree with in particular? Having read through the
page their logic seems sound enough to me.

Anthony
  #6  
Old March 22nd 07, 10:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
vernon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 503
Default ctc and motorcycles


"Anthony Jones" wrote in message
...
raisethe wrote:
The anti-motorcycling arguments on the link are unsustainable and
should be removed and the ctc's campaigning should be amended
accordingly.


What is it that you disagree with in particular? Having read through the
page their logic seems sound enough to me.

As a motorcycling cyclist, I have no quibble with the CTC stance.



  #7  
Old March 22nd 07, 11:03 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
wafflycat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,049
Default ctc and motorcycles


http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4796

"CTC does not want bikes banned"

"This week's Motor Cycle News has dreamt up an attention-grabbing headline
which is in fact wholly untrue. It suggests that CTC wants motor cycles
banned - this is not the case.


We do not believe that motorcycles should be admitted into bus lanes, and
therefore object to the Government's latest advice that this option should
be for local authorities to decide (overturning previous advice against
admitting motorcycles). But that is very different from suggesting that we
want motorcycles banned, as MCN's headline and first paragraph states. This,
we believe, is wholly misleading.



Our webpage sets out the issues where we have common ground with
motorcyclists - for instance we were with the motorcyclists' lobby in
opposing the European Commission's recent proposals for Daytime Running
Lights on all motor vehicles."










  #8  
Old March 22nd 07, 11:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Brooke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,493
Default ctc and motorcycles

in message . com, iarocu
') wrote:

Personally I have no
problems with motorbikes. All the scary moments I can think of have
involved cars, buses and hgvs.


A learner on a motorbike nearly had me off yesterday. Passed
muchmuchmuchmuchmuch too close - his wing mirror hit my elbow.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; If you're doing this for fun, do what seems fun. If you're
;; doing it for money, stop now.
;; Rainer Deyke
  #9  
Old March 22nd 07, 11:18 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
John B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 484
Default ctc and motorcycles



iarocu wrote:

On 22 Mar, 20:29, "raisethe" wrote:
Following on from the problems recently discussed about John Snow as
the new ctc president, I have to point out my considerable displeasure
with the ctc's position on motorbikes.


Well I have to say I agree with banning motorbikes from bus lanes.


Yup, and those pesky electric bike versions too.

John B

  #10  
Old March 22nd 07, 11:27 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
raisethe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 534
Default ctc and motorcycles

On 22 Mar, 21:25, Anthony Jones wrote:
raisethe wrote:
The anti-motorcycling arguments on the link are unsustainable and
should be removed and the ctc's campaigning should be amended
accordingly.


What is it that you disagree with in particular? Having read through the
page their logic seems sound enough to me.

Anthony


Firstly, I am shocked that everyone doesn't agree with me - especially
the motorcyclists. To be labelled a troll is also rather bizarre.
Surely it is not in the interests of cyclists to be anti-motorbike?

This is what is unpalatable:

1. 'policy decisions in relation to motorcycling also need to reflect
the threat which motorcycling poses to other road users and to the
environment.'

Motorcycles, like buses, lorries , cars etc pose no meaningful threat
to cyclists when they are properly driven. They cause pollution, as do
other vehicles including bicycles. This weeks MCN had an amusing
letter suggesting that the flatulence caused by a bean-eating tree-
hugging cyclist far outweighs anything coming from a motorbike
exhaust. Whilst that is silly, it is also emphasises the ridicule
cyclists are exposing themselves to by adopting such a policy. Despite
the fact that motor vehicles in general create more pollution than
bicycles, they will always have a place on the roads and it is absurd
to imply otherwise.

2. 'Dangerous to themselves and to others. Motorcyclists place not
only themselves at risk, but they are also disproportionately
hazardous to pedestrians' and cyclists' safety as well. '

The danger that motorcyclists choose to expose themselves to is
nothing to do with the cycling community. Perhaps the ctc will become
anti mountain climbers next. The assertion that they are hazardous to
pedestrian's safety is likewise irrelevant. Is there any evidence that
they are 'disproportionately hazardous to...cyclists' safety'? The
quoted statistics are hard to take at face value.

3. 'A threat to pro-cycling policies. Encouraging more motorcycle use
will undermine efforts to promote cycling...'

An extremely weak argument, presumably dreamt up by an ex-public
school boy. Perhaps ctc should be anti running, anti hillwalking, anti-
train, anti anything which may make someone choose an alternative to
cycling.

4. 'PTWs motorbikes should not be allowed in bus lanes, cycle lanes,
advanced stop lines or vehicle-restricted areas.' The ctc should not
be advocating the use of bus lanes which are a waste of road space.
They are also only one step short of dangerous cycle paths. It is
obviously a far better solution to reduce the volume of congestion by
prohibiting on-road parking for vehicles and by road pricing.

5. 'It is inappropriate to allow motor cycle access to bus lanes since
they are private motorised vehicles which represent a disproportionate
threat to cyclists and pedestrians who would otherwise benefit from
use of the lane.'

Given the foregoing, I read this as ctc trying to exert its power over
another minority group, trying to make cycling appear more attractive
than motorcycling, without regard to what is of most benefit to the
citizen.


It would therefore appear that cyclist paranoia about other road
vehicles is not limited to the new president, Snow, but is
institutionalised within the ctc. I will have nothing more to do with
them and I hope others will follow suit.

Ray

 




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