Sustrans website and cycle maps - is there a better alternative?

I consider myself to be fairly technical, but I find the sustrains
site incredibly difficult to use! OK, I know they want you to buy the
"proper" maps, but why is there online mapping system so difficult to
use?

I emailed them about 6 months ago to suggest using a googlemaps mashup
system, which would be totally free, but they didn't reply - I guess
they must have paid a whole wad of cash for the rights to use those
'orrible static maps.

It seems that people have mashed up everything from starbucks
locations to The Underground ( http://tubejp.co.uk/ ) and with the new
"anyone can use" mapmaker (http://maps.google.com/help/maps/userguide/
index.html) allowing easy adding of placemarks, lines, shapes, notes,
pictures etc, I was wondering if anyone had set about making something
more user friendly?

If not, I might even give it a go myself! But I feel sure that someone
MUST have made a decent version of the routes - I just can't find it

"digitaltoast" wrote in message
ups.com...
I consider myself to be fairly technical, but I find the sustrains
site incredibly difficult to use! OK, I know they want you to buy the
"proper" maps, but why is there online mapping system so difficult to
use?

I emailed them about 6 months ago to suggest using a googlemaps mashup
system, which would be totally free, but they didn't reply - I guess
they must have paid a whole wad of cash for the rights to use those
'orrible static maps.

It seems that people have mashed up everything from starbucks
locations to The Underground ( http://tubejp.co.uk/ ) and with the new
"anyone can use" mapmaker (http://maps.google.com/help/maps/userguide/
index.html) allowing easy adding of placemarks, lines, shapes, notes,
pictures etc, I was wondering if anyone had set about making something
more user friendly?

If not, I might even give it a go myself! But I feel sure that someone
MUST have made a decent version of the routes - I just can't find it


I couldn't find anything either.

What I wanted was something I could load in to my GPS mapping s/w,
so I would be able to use see Sustrans traffic free routes when
planning a ride.

What I ended up doing was creating my own GPS route file for most
of the Sustrans traffic free routes in Somerset and surrounding area.

It was a pain though, I had to view each of the routes on the Sustrans
site, at the highest zoom, and manually transcribe the route to my GPS
software by clicking on the GPS map to create the waypoints that
make up the routes.

There's got to be a better way.

Dave.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 05:23:05 +0100, "David Lowther"
wrote:

It was a pain though, I had to view each of the routes on the Sustrans
site, at the highest zoom, and manually transcribe the route to my GPS
software by clicking on the GPS map to create the waypoints that
make up the routes.

There's got to be a better way.


Use roads?

ME

"digitaltoast" wrote in message
ups.com...
I consider myself to be fairly technical, but I find the sustrains
site incredibly difficult to use! OK, I know they want you to buy the
"proper" maps, but why is there online mapping system so difficult to
use?

I emailed them about 6 months ago to suggest using a googlemaps mashup
system, which would be totally free, but they didn't reply - I guess
they must have paid a whole wad of cash for the rights to use those
'orrible static maps.

It seems that people have mashed up everything from starbucks
locations to The Underground ( http://tubejp.co.uk/ ) and with the new
"anyone can use" mapmaker (http://maps.google.com/help/maps/userguide/
index.html) allowing easy adding of placemarks, lines, shapes, notes,
pictures etc, I was wondering if anyone had set about making something
more user friendly?

If not, I might even give it a go myself! But I feel sure that someone
MUST have made a decent version of the routes - I just can't find it


I believe that the original mapping project was sponsored by Halfrods - need
one say more?

RG

Following on from RG's message. . .
I believe that the original mapping project was sponsored by Halfrods - need
one say more?

I'm not an apologist for Sustrans but I think you may be being rather
harsh. When it first came out these were as good as it got. Technology
has moved on very quickly (and if they knew at the beginning (say 2
years of preparation) what technology was going to be available at the
end then they'd have waited...and waited...and waited.. ) Nowadays
there are whizzy things you can do - but my oh my, whatever did you do
before 'downloading to a GPS' whatever that is.

Also I think you'll find that most people take Sustrans maps with a
pinch of salt - I do hope you're not going to turn into one of those
people who drive into a river 'because my sat-nav told me'.

IMHO The crunch is "is a sustrans route particularly better than
alternatives" I suspect the answer is "rarely". It might be different
or if lucky a well designed, well maintained, well signposted and really
useful cycle specific facility - but really it's just "we've picked some
roads going in a general direction".

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the e-commerce business came to a .

www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

"Peter Fox" wrote in
message ...
Following on from RG's message. . .
I believe that the original mapping project was sponsored by Halfrods -
need
one say more?

I'm not an apologist for Sustrans but I think you may be being rather
harsh. When it first came out these were as good as it got. Technology
has moved on very quickly (and if they knew at the beginning (say 2 years
of preparation) what technology was going to be available at the end then
they'd have waited...and waited...and waited.. ) Nowadays there are
whizzy things you can do - but my oh my, whatever did you do before
'downloading to a GPS' whatever that is.

Also I think you'll find that most people take Sustrans maps with a pinch
of salt - I do hope you're not going to turn into one of those people who
drive into a river 'because my sat-nav told me'.

IMHO The crunch is "is a sustrans route particularly better than
alternatives" I suspect the answer is "rarely". It might be different or
if lucky a well designed, well maintained, well signposted and really
useful cycle specific facility - but really it's just "we've picked some
roads going in a general direction".

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the e-commerce business came to a .

www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Perhaps I was a little harsh (and I am a Sustrans Ranger too!) - I accept
the point on technology moving forward at great pace, BUT even then the
original idea was IMHO poorly conceived - trying to be too clever perhaps -
although in fairness the draconian use licence conditions and imposed by the
OS and accompanying costs make starting anything to do with maps a
challenge.

Perhaps the moral of the story would have been for Sustrans to partner one
of the mapping vendors (Memory Map, Tracklogs, Fugawi etc) who had the
expertise and, probably, would have welcomed the additional marketing
exposure through Sustrans?

I shall not rise to the bait on the suitability/appropriateness of Sustrans
routes ;-)

RG

On 7 Apr 2007 15:43:58 -0700, digitaltoast wrote:
I consider myself to be fairly technical, but I find the sustrains
site incredibly difficult to use! OK, I know they want you to buy the
"proper" maps, but why is there online mapping system so difficult to
use?

They have maps online now? Last time I looked you had to send off for them in
dead-tree format.

Have you tried the OS maps site? http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/

--
Stephen Patterson :: :: http://patter.mine.nu/
GPG: B416F0DE :: Jabber:
"Don't be silly, Minnie. Who'd be walking round these cliffs with a gas oven?"

"digitaltoast" wrote in message
ups.com...
I consider myself to be fairly technical, but I find the sustrains
site incredibly difficult to use! OK, I know they want you to buy the
"proper" maps, but why is there online mapping system so difficult to
use?

I emailed them about 6 months ago to suggest using a googlemaps mashup
system, which would be totally free, but they didn't reply - I guess
they must have paid a whole wad of cash for the rights to use those
'orrible static maps.

It seems that people have mashed up everything from starbucks
locations to The Underground ( http://tubejp.co.uk/ ) and with the new
"anyone can use" mapmaker (http://maps.google.com/help/maps/userguide/
index.html) allowing easy adding of placemarks, lines, shapes, notes,
pictures etc, I was wondering if anyone had set about making something
more user friendly?

If not, I might even give it a go myself! But I feel sure that someone
MUST have made a decent version of the routes - I just can't find it


I confess that I am not a "Sustrans" supporter

I do ride on portions on Sustrans routes but only because they hit my route.

I am an ancient. grumpy old tourer and I travel from "a"
to......................"q" by the route that I select. It is generally on
road 95% + of the time -- but I do avoid hugely busy road most of the time
on tour.

but, but I will not follow Sustrans meanderings which can, at times, double
your mileage and on very poor tracks. Riding on road I am safe, I ride
positively and any half aware motorist know what I am about to do by the way I
ride.

most portions of Sustrans route I have encountered are unmaintained ( I can
quote several portions which have had the same debris and glass there for
over 6 months). Route signs are destroyed and off road tracks are reduced in
width by a half (maintenance again!)
I am expected to cycle over potholes and on tracks and roads covered in filthy
and debris that has been there for years.

I do suggest that you go for a cycling trip in Europe to see how it should be
done.

To be honest my comments do not just apply to Sustrans but to the general lack
of cleanliness of our countryside.-- and it is not just the beer can chucking
driver -- it is also the litter chucking pedestrian and cyclist as well.

It is sad



--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

"Peter Fox" wrote in
message ...

IMHO The crunch is "is a sustrans route particularly better than
alternatives" I suspect the answer is "rarely". It might be different or
if lucky a well designed, well maintained, well signposted and really
useful cycle specific facility - but really it's just "we've picked some
roads going in a general direction".

Funny this should come up just when I have been suffering from Poor sinage
on route 77 ("salmon run")

At Logie Rait the sign said 23 to Perth, across the tay viaduct and the sign
said 24, 8 miles later at the A9 bridge across the tay near , after figuring
out why the sign for Perth pointed onto the A9 (badly placed and someones
turned it, probably because of the surface on the way into Dunkeld) it says
20 miles. Following this a bit of "fun" trying to cycle along a sandy path.
and out into Dunkeld where it says 18, then In Birnam 13 to perth, followed
by 18 at the junction that leads you over the hill by Pitcairn Green. Which
was the last distance sign we saw.

Great choice of route for this bit though, not too many blind sumits and
corners, though at some of the gradients are severe and times the road is no
wider than a car, which I succeeded on doing twice on steep drops.

The vhoice of route from Inverness to Slochd isn't great, dark and narrow
sections, terrible surface, blind corners and summits. (though this may be
sticking in mind having passed Scene of Crime officers and the coroners
(Jaguar Estate) car just north of balloch.)

Drumochter is an absolute *******, the wind was a problem, but wouldn't have
been as bad if the path was more than a bike + pannier width and a bit
further away from the road (gave up and walked it after side wind gusts
pused me onto the grass and towards oncomming traffic)

The sections over the old A9 are brilliant though.

will probably post this properly as a TR later

Niall

"digitaltoast" wrote in message
ups.com...
I consider myself to be fairly technical, but I find the sustrains
site incredibly difficult to use! OK, I know they want you to buy the
"proper" maps, but why is there online mapping system so difficult to
use?

I emailed them about 6 months ago to suggest using a googlemaps mashup
system, which would be totally free, but they didn't reply - I guess
they must have paid a whole wad of cash for the rights to use those
'orrible static maps.

It seems that people have mashed up everything from starbucks
locations to The Underground ( http://tubejp.co.uk/ ) and with the new
"anyone can use" mapmaker (http://maps.google.com/help/maps/userguide/
index.html) allowing easy adding of placemarks, lines, shapes, notes,
pictures etc, I was wondering if anyone had set about making something
more user friendly?

If not, I might even give it a go myself! But I feel sure that someone
MUST have made a decent version of the routes - I just can't find it

You should try OS maps.

Alan