Todays Metro

"Women cyclists more at risk of death"


http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34

On 24 Apr, 12:03, "Jan" wrote:
"Women cyclists more at risk of death"

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....46427&in_page_...

I agree that you do need to be assertive, (not sure about aggressive)
to survive as a cyclist. I am female and have survived thus far so
perhaps I am more assertive than some. I don't think this an excuse to
jump red lights however. What a totally OTT, lazy and deliberately
written for 'shock value' peice of reporting.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:03:50 +0100, "Jan" wrote:

"Women cyclists more at risk of death"


http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34

What it doesn't make clear is whether in the two enumerated instances, the
cyclists cycled along the left of the lorry prior to stopping at the light.

If they did, then I would hardly call that 'cautious'. Neither has it anything
to do with aggression or assertiveness. It's simply suicidal.

If, OTOH, the lorry drove to the right of the cyclists and then, moments later,
turned into them then, it is a most egregious fault on the part of the lorry
driver which should have resulted in a manslaughter charge at the very least.

Of course, we all know how unlikely a motorist is to suffer any significant
sanction no matter how culpable s/he is (unless they've been drinking).

In article ,
(Ziggy) writes:
| On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:03:50 +0100, "Jan" wrote:
|
| "Women cyclists more at risk of death"
|
| http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34
|
| What it doesn't make clear is whether in the two enumerated instances, the
| cyclists cycled along the left of the lorry prior to stopping at the light.
|
| If they did, then I would hardly call that 'cautious'. Neither has it anything
| to do with aggression or assertiveness. It's simply suicidal.

Which is one reason why advanced stop boxes without separate phasing
for cyclists and motor vehicles are an anti-cyclist measure.

But modern psychlists like them :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Blonde" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 24 Apr, 12:03, "Jan" wrote:
"Women cyclists more at risk of death"

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....46427&in_page_...

I agree that you do need to be assertive, (not sure about aggressive)
to survive as a cyclist. I am female and have survived thus far so
perhaps I am more assertive than some. I don't think this an excuse to
jump red lights however. What a totally OTT, lazy and deliberately
written for 'shock value' peice of reporting.


Haven't read the article, so not commenting on it specifically.

As regards assertiveness, it's essential to be assertive when cycling in
traffic. It's part of telling motorists what you are doing and when you are
doing it and where you are going. It's not necessary to be aggressive, IMO,
except, perhaps, when having to defend one's self in a bout of road rage
from some idiot in a metal cage, and even then, discretion is often the
better form of valour. I've found that some other female leisure cyclists
I've met are far less assertive than I am, and I get the 'you are so brave,
cycling on your own' line, or the 'it's too dangerous too cycle out from the
gutter'

We know a greater proportion of women than of men die in collision with
lorries.

We know women have shorter feet than men, in general.

I guess that women like to put a foot on the kerb when they stop.

I know that the kerbside is not a good place to stop at traffic lights.

I suspect women don't like to wait in the centre of the lane. I suspect
this might cause problems.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

wafflycat wrote:


"Blonde" wrote in message
roups.com...
On 24 Apr, 12:03, "Jan" wrote:
"Women cyclists more at risk of death"

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....46427&in_page_...

I agree that you do need to be assertive, (not sure about aggressive)
to survive as a cyclist. I am female and have survived thus far so
perhaps I am more assertive than some. I don't think this an excuse to
jump red lights however. What a totally OTT, lazy and deliberately
written for 'shock value' peice of reporting.


Haven't read the article, so not commenting on it specifically.

Women cyclists are more likely to be killed by lorries than men
because they obey red lights and then wait in drivers' blind spots.

Research by Transport for London, which has been kept secret since
last July, suggests that cyclists who jump red lights may be safer
than those who stick to the law.

According to the study, 86 per cent of women cyclists killed in London
between 1999 and 2004 were in collisions with a lorry.
This compares with 47 per cent for men.

Since the report was completed the death rate among women cyclists has
risen further.

Last month two were killed in accidents with lorries within 24 hours
of one another.

Amelia Zollner, 24, a Cambridge graduate working at the Institute for
Publ ic Pol icy Research, had stopped at traffic lights in Russell
Square and was killed when a lorry pulled away after they turned
green.

Rosie Wright, 26, who worked nearby at the School of Oriental and
African Studies, died in similar circumstances the next day.

The study says pedestrian guard railings may have contributed to three
deaths as they leave cyclists with no escape route.

A TfL spokesman said the study had not been published because it was
“produced solely to inform TfL policies”.

Peter Wright, Rosie's father and a vehicle safety expert, said: “Rosie
was reasonably cautious which seems to be the problem.

It seems that you need to be aggressive and assertive to survive as a
cyclist.”
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

On 24 Apr 2007 11:44:14 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
(Ziggy) writes:
| On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:03:50 +0100, "Jan" wrote:
|
| "Women cyclists more at risk of death"
|
| http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34
|
| What it doesn't make clear is whether in the two enumerated instances, the
| cyclists cycled along the left of the lorry prior to stopping at the light.
|
| If they did, then I would hardly call that 'cautious'. Neither has it anything
| to do with aggression or assertiveness. It's simply suicidal.

Which is one reason why advanced stop boxes without separate phasing
for cyclists and motor vehicles are an anti-cyclist measure.

Only if the cyclists don't use some common sense.

Then again, I have seen cyclists trundling along a 1 foot wide cycle lane
between a lorry and some railings *long* after the lights have turned red so I
suppose you may have a point.

Mind you, I've seen a lot of cyclists cycle in the death zone just to the right
of parked cars. For them, bicycles are and anti-cyclist measure.

I've also been told off by a female cyclist for cycling 1m out into the road
when she had been cycling in the gutter that was flooded with an unknowable
depth of water.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
Which is one reason why advanced stop boxes without separate phasing
for cyclists and motor vehicles are an anti-cyclist measure.

If the cyclist is assertive enough to position himself/herself such that
there's no easy way for the following vehicle to pass until it's safe, then
there is no need for separate phasing, and the advanced stop box is
beneficial as it is.

Anthony

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:46:27 +0100, "wafflycat"
wrote:

... and I get the 'you are so brave,
cycling on your own' line, or the 'it's too dangerous too cycle out from the
gutter'

This is the most heartbreaking thing.

I have a very good friend who always cycles in the gutter. For years I've been
nagging at her to change her ways but she will not, claiming that she's been
cycling in London for 30 years and that I must be doing it wrong as I get honked
at (rarely) and she doesn't.

A couple of months ago I and another cyclist sat her down with a copy of
'Cyclecraft', and carefully went through all the reasons why you shouldn't cycle
in the gutter (including the greater likelyhood of punctures, about which she is
forever complaining). We also showed her cuttings about how more women are
killed in cycl;ing accidents in London, probably because of their submissive
attitude to motorists.

It all seemed to be going really well. She clearly understood and agreed with
all the points mentioned and discussed.

When we'd finished she calmly announced that she fully understood what we'd been
discussing but would continue to cycle in the gutter because we got honked by
motorists and she didn't.