Bike adjustments

On 15/12/19 11:33 pm, wrote:
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 7:20:01 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 15/12/19 2:06 pm, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 6:46:36 PM UTC-8, James wrote:


A phobia of hydraulics? No, I don't have one of those, but I
appreciate the simplicity and reliability of cables. I don't
need self adjustment or extra light feel.

My grip strength is pretty good. I gave up my desk job and
retired at about age 40, and now spend time hobby farming.
Anyone who works on the land is likely to have fairly good grip
strength.


You don't consider hydraulics which are used on every single auto
in the world as simplistic and reliable? Just making you think
about what you said.


Simplistic and reliable compared with cable operated bicycle
brakes?

No.

Why don't they rely on hydraulics for the handbrake?


Hmm, I don't know if a cable operated handbrake is a good example.
You never had a frozen cable?

No. Never. Conditions where that might happen in Australia are
extremely rare. It was 43 degrees C on the road as I rode home today
from a 90 km ride.

I had and that was really a PIA. In all
manuals of the cars I had with a cable operated handbrakes it was
advised not to use it in wet freezing weather, just put the car in
second gear.

I don't know why second gear is magical. I'd put mine in first or
reverse perhaps, if I didn't have confidence the hand brake would hold
on a steep hill.

After my incident I just did that. Never used a
handbrake except for getting started on a hill. I don't know how it
works in my current car with an automatic transmission but I'm sure
there is no cable in there. Anyhow all of my hydraulic disc brakes
proved to be extremely reliable, never had any issues with them on
three of my bikes. YMMV. For off road riding in the winter it was
quite good today. My cross bike looked like this after todays ride:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZjpqaJLvVsGfqT366

Pretty clean.

In contrast, of the 5 different cars I have owned, 3 of them have had
problems with the hydraulic brakes. Mostly leaky slave cylinders, and
one leaky master cylinder. The cable actuated hand brakes have never
failed, and neither have the cable actuated brakes on my bicycles.

--
JS

On 15/12/19 11:35 pm, wrote:


Retired from your desk job at the age of 40 and hobby farming now? That is remarkable.


Thank you.

--
JS

On 16/12/19 5:11 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:20:01 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 15/12/19 2:06 pm, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 6:46:36 PM UTC-8, James wrote:


A phobia of hydraulics? No, I don't have one of those, but I
appreciate the simplicity and reliability of cables. I don't
need self adjustment or extra light feel.

My grip strength is pretty good. I gave up my desk job and
retired at about age 40, and now spend time hobby farming.
Anyone who works on the land is likely to have fairly good grip
strength.


You don't consider hydraulics which are used on every single auto
in the world as simplistic and reliable? Just making you think
about what you said.


Simplistic and reliable compared with cable operated bicycle
brakes?

No.

Why don't they rely on hydraulics for the handbrake?

-- JS

1. A handbrake is a backup for the Park setting on the transmission
or the low gear or reverse you leave it in when parked. It HAS no
force nor can it stop the car if it is rolling at anything over 5
mph.

Rubbish. Using the transmission as a brake is only desirable when
parking on a steep hill, and the park brake will certainly stop a car
from almost any speed, provided it is not down a steep hill where it
might overheat the park brake disc or drum.

2. The REAL braking on an auto is with hydraulics. Why add an
entirely additional hydraulic system when a cable cost 1/4th. The
trade-off is cheap vs effective.


Hydraulics are used on a car braking system for quite different reasons.
Balancing the braking force and being able to assist the driver with a
vacuum assisted brake booster, for example - and now automatic braking
systems that modulate the brakes to avoid skidding. All of that would
be far more challenging with cable brakes on a car.

--
JS

On 16/12/19 9:26 am, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:19:58 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Bicycle hydraulic brakes are not nearly as reliable or durable as
any such brakes used on a motor vehicle (even a cheap motorcycle or
scooter).

Also, bicycles don't have the sort of long, tortuous brake line
routing that makes cable brakes a bad choice for many motor
vehicles. Hydraulic bicycle brakes are just a vanity feature that
introduces new modes of failure and service requirements, without
bringing any measurable benefits to offset the drawbacks.

Hydraulics are measurably better on my commuter with its tortured
cable runs and long housing. The housing/cable drag and weak return
spring on BB7s produced a draggy cable disc. The hydraulics are
exceptionally positive, great stopping in wet weather -- which is
most of my riding this time of year -- and they have been problem
free. YMMV. And since when is a hydro disc a vanity feature? It's
not like a status symbol of some kind. It has an essential purpose
-- braking. I could always jam a stick between my front tire and
fork crown or ride a fixie, but instead I ride a bike with a hydro
disc brake. At what point is something not a vanity item? 5 speed
balloon tires -- or three -- or one. What is the absolutely ethical
bike? I'll get one of those and drag it up and down the hills in the
rain so I can be authentic.


My gravel bike has non-torturous cable routing, and cable actuated disc
brakes work absolutely fine.

If your frame wasn't designed with such tricky routing, cables would
probably be fine for you too.

Having fancy concealed and torturous cable/tube routing is a vanity
feature. LOL

--
JS

On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 8:08:46 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 16/12/19 9:26 am, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:19:58 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote:
Bicycle hydraulic brakes are not nearly as reliable or durable as
any such brakes used on a motor vehicle (even a cheap motorcycle or
scooter).

Also, bicycles don't have the sort of long, tortuous brake line
routing that makes cable brakes a bad choice for many motor
vehicles. Hydraulic bicycle brakes are just a vanity feature that
introduces new modes of failure and service requirements, without
bringing any measurable benefits to offset the drawbacks.

Hydraulics are measurably better on my commuter with its tortured
cable runs and long housing. The housing/cable drag and weak return
spring on BB7s produced a draggy cable disc. The hydraulics are
exceptionally positive, great stopping in wet weather -- which is
most of my riding this time of year -- and they have been problem
free. YMMV. And since when is a hydro disc a vanity feature? It's
not like a status symbol of some kind. It has an essential purpose
-- braking. I could always jam a stick between my front tire and
fork crown or ride a fixie, but instead I ride a bike with a hydro
disc brake. At what point is something not a vanity item? 5 speed
balloon tires -- or three -- or one. What is the absolutely ethical
bike? I'll get one of those and drag it up and down the hills in the
rain so I can be authentic.


My gravel bike has non-torturous cable routing, and cable actuated disc
brakes work absolutely fine.

If your frame wasn't designed with such tricky routing, cables would
probably be fine for you too.

Having fancy concealed and torturous cable/tube routing is a vanity
feature. LOL

It's not because they're concealed, its because the whole run is in housing and takes some hard turns to the top of the chain stay. It was a poor match with a BB7, and it's true, the frame was built for hydraulics with flat mount rear. That's pretty standard these days.

I used cable discs for over 15 years. I prefer the feel of hydraulic, but I personally don't care what other people use.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:48:29 +1100, James
wrote:

On 15/12/19 11:33 pm, wrote:
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 7:20:01 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 15/12/19 2:06 pm, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 6:46:36 PM UTC-8, James wrote:


A phobia of hydraulics? No, I don't have one of those, but I
appreciate the simplicity and reliability of cables. I don't
need self adjustment or extra light feel.

My grip strength is pretty good. I gave up my desk job and
retired at about age 40, and now spend time hobby farming.
Anyone who works on the land is likely to have fairly good grip
strength.


You don't consider hydraulics which are used on every single auto
in the world as simplistic and reliable? Just making you think
about what you said.


Simplistic and reliable compared with cable operated bicycle
brakes?

No.

Why don't they rely on hydraulics for the handbrake?


Hmm, I don't know if a cable operated handbrake is a good example.
You never had a frozen cable?

No. Never. Conditions where that might happen in Australia are
extremely rare. It was 43 degrees C on the road as I rode home today
from a 90 km ride.

I had and that was really a PIA. In all
manuals of the cars I had with a cable operated handbrakes it was
advised not to use it in wet freezing weather, just put the car in
second gear.

I don't know why second gear is magical. I'd put mine in first or
reverse perhaps, if I didn't have confidence the hand brake would hold
on a steep hill.

After my incident I just did that. Never used a
handbrake except for getting started on a hill. I don't know how it
works in my current car with an automatic transmission but I'm sure
there is no cable in there. Anyhow all of my hydraulic disc brakes
proved to be extremely reliable, never had any issues with them on
three of my bikes. YMMV. For off road riding in the winter it was
quite good today. My cross bike looked like this after todays ride:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZjpqaJLvVsGfqT366

Pretty clean.

In contrast, of the 5 different cars I have owned, 3 of them have had
problems with the hydraulic brakes. Mostly leaky slave cylinders, and
one leaky master cylinder. The cable actuated hand brakes have never
failed, and neither have the cable actuated brakes on my bicycles.

I would suggest that if you used the cable operated hand brake, i.e.,
Parking Brake, as frequently as you do the hydraulic brakes that you
would have had far more problems with it than the hydraulics :-)
--
cheers,

John B.