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#51
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c'mon Johan, tell us how you really feel
Bill C wrote: Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote: "Bill C" wrote in message ups.com... Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote: "Bill C" wrote in message oups.com... Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote: "Raptor" wrote in message ... Marlene Blanshay wrote: I think it's also that they don't have to work two jobs and scramble to pay doctor bills, as health care is universal. That may sound like a little thing, but i see how many americans scramble to pay bills when someone gets sick. God help you if you have some low paying minimum wage job. By contrast, Amerikans work twice as hard and pay comparable taxes with none of that stuff cradle-to-grave stuff. But we've got this great big cool army, so we don't get ****ed on like France and other socialist euros. Instead, we get ****ed off. France does not have a socialist government, unless I am very mistaken. Choices & priorities. Frankly, as the years go by those euro-pussies are looking a hell of a lot more comfortable than I. -- -- Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall Conservative dictionary: Judicial Activist: n. A judge who tends to rule against your wishes. Let's see State owned industry, mostly centrally planned economy, 'Mostly'...well, that's one way to put it. With such vagueness you can convince anyone. France has a free market, it's not a planned economy with five-year plans or such. And they don't have a socialist government.In fact I'd be hard pressed to call it a socialist state even if the socialist party had a majority in parliament. cradle to grave government net no matter how little you contributepaid for by income redistribution. Yes, everyone is rich there because the government gives people money. And they steal it from the rightful owners, ofcourse. I don't know how much welfare you can receive in France, but there is poverty there, too, so it's probably not much. Perhaps about the same as here in the Netherlands, where there is no such thing as 'cradle to grave government'. I'd say that France has a socialist system that has been democratically chosen, and now they are paying the bill for it. I'd say you don't know what you're talking about. Obviously I don't and neither do my family members who have lived in and around Paris for a couple of centuries. Perhaps one of the Sans Culottes in your family can explain what a conservative party is. [snipped low content/rant ratio drivel] This might be a real stretch for you, but it doesn't matter what they call themselves, it's what they do. Here's a perfect example for you: http://www.korea-dpr.com/ They call themselves The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. Do you see anything resembling a democracy or republic happening in N. Korea? I sure haven't. Here's a piece commenting on the EU in general being unable economically to support it's socialist policies, and the outrage coming from the people who have been carried along by the system based on socialist policies when the governments can no longer afford them. Even you're "conservative" parties aren't conservative, barring the nutcases parties. IMO our disagreement is based on the position of the observer. What I would see as being very socialist as a ibertarian type, you might very well see as conservative because it's less socialist than what you are used to. IMO just about all the countries in western Europe are fairly socialist, as is Canada. France in particular due to it's economic policies: From http://encarta.msn.com/text_761568934___24/France.html Successive French governments have encouraged varying levels of intervention in the economy, including state ownership and control of key industries. In 1982 the Socialist-led government of president François Mitterrand initiated a program of extensive nationalization. At the peak of this program, 13 of the 20 largest firms in France were owned by the state. The election of a center-right parliamentary majority in 1986, however, led to a reduction of state ownership. During the 1990s and early 2000s, the government continued the process of privatization, selling off a variety of state-owned enterprises and reducing its holdings in others. Despite these measures, the public sector as a share of GDP remains higher in France than in any other country to adopt the euro. In addition, France's progress in opening its domestic markets to foreign competition as required by the EU, especially in the energy sector, has been slow, inviting criticism and legal challenges from the EU. If all those things I've brought up aren't socialist I don't know what is. Bill C Here's a piece on the painful transition they are starting to make: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4184155.stm Here's another piece: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4305456.stm Bill C |
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#52
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c'mon Johan, tell us how you really feel
"Bill C" wrote in message
oups.com... This might be a real stretch for you, but it doesn't matter what they call themselves, it's what they do. Here's a perfect example for you: http://www.korea-dpr.com/ They call themselves The Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. Do you see anything resembling a democracy or republic happening in N. Korea? I sure haven't. With such reasoning, I don't even need to add anything for your statements to look ridiculous. I can see you've taken to responding to yourself. Have fun, I've had my laugh. |
#53
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c'mon Johan, tell us how you really feel
In article . com,
"amit" wrote: Ryan Cousineau wrote: no one would argue the reason why the spanish are better GT riders than the belgians is because of some overarching difference between spanish and belgian society. No? Danny Coyle's book "Lance Armstrong's War" muses on the surprising number of very successful riders from hardscrabble upbringings. Perhaps the issue is that Belgium is a happy and prosperous country, while Spain has only recently emerged from its role as one of the poorest countries in western Europe. the counter to that is why are the spanish so lousy in the classics compared to the belgians ? And the answer to that is "cultural imperatives." Or to put it another way, the Spanish mostly don't care about the classics, and if a rider was even marginally disposed towards becoming a GT racer or a climber, I daresay he would opt for the latter rather than the former. And why are the Iberians naturally disposed to mountains, while the Netherlanders prefer the flat one-day races? Well, it's no secret the classics favor the big men, and the Dutch are the biggest men in Europe. http://www.oberlin.edu/alummag/oamcu...ay99/tall.html This is pure speculation, but I bet the Belgians are a lot closer in average height to the Dutch than the Spanish. None of this precludes the coming of another outlier like Miguel Indurain, tall by any standards, but the fact that this Spaniard chose to focus on the GTs rather than become a Classics rider probably says it all. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
#54
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c'mon Johan, tell us how you really feel
Ryan Cousineau wrote: In article . com, "amit" wrote: Ryan Cousineau wrote: no one would argue the reason why the spanish are better GT riders than the belgians is because of some overarching difference between spanish and belgian society. No? Danny Coyle's book "Lance Armstrong's War" muses on the surprising number of very successful riders from hardscrabble upbringings. Perhaps the issue is that Belgium is a happy and prosperous country, while Spain has only recently emerged from its role as one of the poorest countries in western Europe. the counter to that is why are the spanish so lousy in the classics compared to the belgians ? And the answer to that is "cultural imperatives." Or to put it another way, the Spanish mostly don't care about the classics, and if a rider was even marginally disposed towards becoming a GT racer or a climber, I daresay he would opt for the latter rather than the former. And why are the Iberians naturally disposed to mountains, while the Netherlanders prefer the flat one-day races? Well, it's no secret the classics favor the big men, and the Dutch are the biggest men in Europe. http://www.oberlin.edu/alummag/oamcu...ay99/tall.html This is pure speculation, but I bet the Belgians are a lot closer in average height to the Dutch than the Spanish. I don't believe that. When i'm in Holland it always surprises me how tall most of them are in comparison to here in Belgium. I'm only 1m74 so i defenitely notice when i'm among tall people (it gets dark). And that's not (that often) the case over here. IMO another difference is the fact that many dutch people are not only tall but also extremely thin (just check out the dutch riders Weening, Dekker, Boogerd who are less muscled than let's says Boonen, Van Petegem or Museeuw). We, Belgians, don't have that characteristic very often due to our Burgundian way of life. I believe dutch people are more similar to german people in terms of physical features (blond, blue eyes). And you can see that their athletes (like Germans) do a lot better on international level while most of us really suck. And I don't believe that there is a rule that says classics are more in favour for big men. There are a lot of classic kings that don't reach 1m80. On the top of my head: Van Petegem, Tchmil, Bartoli, Bettini, Maertens, Godefroot,... Even for the GT's the rule is doubtful: Basso, Indurain, Ullrich, Riis e.g. are quite tall. I think the type of musculature has a larger impact then the length on what type of rider you are. Basso and Boonen are both tall but Boonen's thighs are twice as large as Basso's. Van Petegem and Simoni are both smaller but Simoni fits twice in PVP. Also the dutch size hasn't resulted in better classics achievements in comparison to GT's. There were Raas, Van der Poel, Knetemann, Dekker and Boogerd against Zoetemelk, Janssen, Breukink, Rooks and Kuiper (OK, Rooks and Kuiper were all rounders). I think that's quite equal. I don't know how Spanish village historically developped but over here people built their house around the church tower. That's why a lot of villages here have a pattern of concentric circles with the church as centre. Resulting in a lot of communities separated from each other. I don't know why cycling was already popular in the early 20th century but on certain occasions (e.g. ecclesial feastdays, yes people were still catholic back then) races where held around the "church tower". It was a social happening, hence the criteriums or "Kermesses". Hence the belgian tradition of one day racing. Kenny |
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