#141
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:49:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
I made no argument. I simply called attention to the fact that the individual that stated "why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless?" simply didn't know what he/she/it was talking about. An expert in misinformation, one might say. Then by all means tell me what rubber tired vehicle was sold with tube tires in the last 30 years. Misinformation indeed! Is it your position that a 1910 Oldfield having tube tires invalidates the statement? |
Ads |
#143
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On 8/15/2018 1:04 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 10:52:54 AM UTC-7, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 1:45:33 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/14/2018 5:02 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 1:35:34 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY pfff..... Lou I like how they used a TUBE for the repair. Might as well just use a tube tire in the first place. Cheers Why? So that you can get five times the flats as a tubeless setup gets? Let me ask you again - why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless? You're beginning to sound like Joerg. "Why don't bicycles have chains as strong as motorcycles? Why don't bicycles have integrated charging systems and heated seats and power windows? Why don't bicycles protect us from the rain?" The requirements are different, so the engineering is different. Bicycles don't have spare tires already mounted on wheels inside their trunks. That alone is very significant. His question is an exaggeration. Every rubber tired vehicle does not use tubeless. I was looking at the wheel chairs in the Hospital the other day and they have foam filled tires. I came across an article that stated that many "Container" carrier trucks are still equipped with tubes. https://www.quora.com/Why-are-tubed-...ses-and-trucks Then I came across the Goodyear catalog for aircraft tires and see that the "standard" tire for the 747 is a tube tire. I could go on (and probably on) but it is obvious that the statement that "every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless" just isn't correct. Or perhaps it is a matter of "every tire that HE KNOWS ABOUT" is tubeless which says something about his qualifications as a tire expert. John, do you even bother to read the stuff you are posting? It plainly states in that article that they don't have tubeless tires because of the expense of upgrading to new style tires and rims. If your argument is based, as most here appear, to be that you have an old bike for which conversion would cost more than the worth of the bike why the hell don't you argue THAT instead of using the phony arguments that they would be difficult to repair if you got the same sort of flat that would also make a tube tire worthless. The dumb-ass comment that you could fix one of these slashed open tires with a candybar wrapper is pretty inane. Or the claim that they don't get as good a performance when even the testing shows the theory of rolling resistance being less on a tire with less mass to e true as it is in every other case. Look, I've been riding for 40 years. I've had a lot of flats. I have never successfully repaired a slashed tire with either an innertube section or ever found a candybar wrapper that would possibly hold anything together against the inflation pressure of a high performance tire. I don't think anyone is proposing a dollar-bill or candy bar wrapper boot as a permanent fix. They do work as a temporary fix until you get home. I've stuffed dollar bills into numerous tires with sizable slashes and gotten home. Agreed, not a permanent fix, but you can get surprisingly far... Had a brand-new veloflex master (very nice tire) on at the start of a 200k rando. Inside of two miles, hit a massive nail/staple (staple shaped, thick as a roofing nail) that left about a 3-4 mm hole in the tire. Boot with a folded Tyvek bib number (from some charity ride), fine for the rest of the ride. Didn't even feel a bump in the tire. Same on another 200k when another new tire got a sidewall cut of about 6-8mm (could put my pinky finger through it). The boot got me 50 miles to a stop where the obliging spousal unit brought another tire - but probably could have finished the ride with the boot. Both flats were three years ago, only one bad flat since, so the flat gremlins ride in packs. And I'm sure I could use heavier tires to avoid some of these problems. Moral: Folded Tyvek bib numbers weigh nothing, take up little space, can salvage some really catastrophic tire failures. (Heh, try that with tubeless). Mark J. |
#144
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On 8/16/2018 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/16/2018 11:35 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote: On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" Â*Â*Â*Â* or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi Â*Â*Â* www.yellowjersey.org/ Â*Â*Â* Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires? It is a little optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds. I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem. +1 I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule someones choice."Â* That is demonstrably untrue. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg -- Jay Beattie. ouch. Can we just stay with cycling? http://i.pinimg.com/236x/ca/ed/69/ca...2029075847.jpg I'm astonished at the ubiquity and staying power of that image; I think we've all seen it dozens of times on the interwebs. I doubt the guy had any clue how famous he'd become. Mark J. |
#145
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 11:54:40 AM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 8/16/2018 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/16/2018 11:35 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote: On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" Â*Â*Â*Â* or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi Â*Â*Â* www.yellowjersey.org/ Â*Â*Â* Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires? It is a little optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds. I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem. +1 I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule someones choice."Â* That is demonstrably untrue. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg -- Jay Beattie. ouch. Can we just stay with cycling? http://i.pinimg.com/236x/ca/ed/69/ca...2029075847.jpg I'm astonished at the ubiquity and staying power of that image; I think we've all seen it dozens of times on the interwebs. I doubt the guy had any clue how famous he'd become. Mark J. It's so sad -- that's Fabio Baldato, who just couldn't lay off the cannolis after his retirement. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...8DaTqmF_u-F6O7 How quickly they fall. Next thing you know, he'll get busted with Jan Ulrich for smacking hookers. -- Jay Beattie. |
#146
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 12:30:23 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 11:54:40 AM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 8/16/2018 10:43 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/16/2018 11:35 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote: On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" Â*Â*Â*Â* or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi Â*Â*Â* www.yellowjersey.org/ Â*Â*Â* Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not.. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires? It is a little optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds. I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem. +1 I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule someones choice."Â* That is demonstrably untrue. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg -- Jay Beattie. ouch. Can we just stay with cycling? http://i.pinimg.com/236x/ca/ed/69/ca...2029075847.jpg I'm astonished at the ubiquity and staying power of that image; I think we've all seen it dozens of times on the interwebs. I doubt the guy had any clue how famous he'd become. Mark J. It's so sad -- that's Fabio Baldato, who just couldn't lay off the cannolis after his retirement. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...8DaTqmF_u-F6O7 How quickly they fall. Next thing you know, he'll get busted with Jan Ulrich for smacking hookers. -- Jay Beattie. Your change in subject is welcome. I think that we can all do without Slocomb's discovery that they still make tubes and tires for classic cars. Perhaps we should start a discussion on what has happened to all of the past racing champions. Very few of them seem to have retained a love for the sport like Lance. |
#147
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 12:13:21 +1000, James wrote:
On 17/08/18 07:50, wrote: Well, I can't argue that people want to ride what they want to ride. I just find it curious that they complain about flats and then won't change over to a tubeless that doesn't get flats. If tubeless don't get flats, why are there inventions to try to stop tubeless from going flat? https://www.pinkbike.com/news/downhi...ret-flat-tire- defender-foam-inserts-first-look.html Ha ha! It works like an inner tube pushing on the bead but weighs double. -- davethedave |
#148
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On Saturday, August 18, 2018 at 5:37:01 AM UTC-4, davethedave wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2018 12:13:21 +1000, James wrote: On 17/08/18 07:50, wrote: Well, I can't argue that people want to ride what they want to ride. I just find it curious that they complain about flats and then won't change over to a tubeless that doesn't get flats. If tubeless don't get flats, why are there inventions to try to stop tubeless from going flat? https://www.pinkbike.com/news/downhi...ret-flat-tire- defender-foam-inserts-first-look.html Ha ha! It works like an inner tube pushing on the bead but weighs double. -- davethedave And the manufacturer does NOT recommend it for anything but "Gravity" riding since it slows you down so much on the flat sections of a trail. "Beginning with Frank Stacy, all those who have ridden the Flat Tire Defender inserts agree that they are best suited for gravity riders. The extra weight would be a burden for most trail riders, who would be slogging around 700-grams of rotating mass 80-percent of the time, only to reap the benefits on the fastest and steepest technical descents." Cheers |
#149
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
|
#150
|
|||
|
|||
Flat repair
On 8/14/2018 9:07 AM, jbeattie wrote:
I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a casing or get a hole that won't self-seal? Spouse, friend, Uber, etc. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Possible to repair a flat-spot (kerb hit) on rear rim? | waldspirale | UK | 5 | April 30th 07 10:32 PM |
Pinch flat repair? | MuniAddict | Unicycling | 8 | March 11th 07 07:33 AM |
Pinch flat repair? | MuniAddict | Unicycling | 0 | March 11th 07 02:36 AM |
Pinch flat repair? | zfreak220 | Unicycling | 0 | March 11th 07 02:29 AM |
Flat tire repair. | Arne | Recumbent Biking | 13 | August 19th 04 03:39 PM |