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#122
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Flat repair
On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:41:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires? I don't ride off road at all. The bicycle fraternity, in the late 19th century, were very active in lobbying for the building of decent roads, and joined by the emerging automobile users were relatively successful. Given the efforts of the early cyclists I much prefer to ride on the paved roads that they were largely responsible for promoting :-) It is a little optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds. I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem. Lou I don't remember ridiculing anyone about their selection. What I do remember ridiculing was the statement that "used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world". In fact I believe I provided examples of many rubber tired vehicle that do not use tubeless tires. And I have pointed out that the loudly voiced explanation of the advantages of the tubeless sealing was nothing new as tire sealants had been sold since the 1980's and possible earlier. |
#123
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Flat repair
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote:
On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires? It is a little optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds. I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem. +1 I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule someones choice." That is demonstrably untrue. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg -- Jay Beattie. |
#124
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Flat repair
On 8/16/2018 11:35 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 8:54:36 AM UTC-7, duane wrote: On 16/08/2018 10:41 AM, wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 4:00:24 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 06:04:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou I adjust the tire pressure to manage pinch flats. It is a compromize between comfort, traction and vulnerablity for pinchflats. Off road on a crossbike traction is more important. Do you ride off road on a crossbike with 32 mm wide tires? It is a little optimistic, I think, to expect a tube/tire not develop leaks is you smash it flat between two hard surfaces at high speeds. I expect a tubeless tire with sturdier side walls to be more robust for pinchflats. It is silly to ridicule someones choice. This applies to you and to Tom. I think Andrew got it right. Sometimes tubeless makes sense, sometimes it is a solution looking for a problem. +1 I agree, except with the statement that "It is silly to ridicule someones choice." That is demonstrably untrue. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e9/0c...41635450a3.jpg -- Jay Beattie. ouch. Can we just stay with cycling? http://i.pinimg.com/236x/ca/ed/69/ca...2029075847.jpg -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#125
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Flat repair
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:09:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/15/2018 12:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. People like tubeless for some applications where they make sense. Other people gave up on them in other applications. I don't feel strongly either way but they are certainly no panacea. Regarding weight, at least for road sizes, you're using a heavier rim liner and a heavier valve assembly plus 55~60 grams of latex to omit a 60~65 gram tube. There may be a weight savings but it can't be significant. People like what they like because they like it. That's fine, and argument enough. I don't see a compelling reason to change, certainly not from 300g tubulars. YMMV, and in your particular case it does. p.s. I drove a wire-wheeled car, the last 8 years with the latest hi-zoot Pirellis and matching tubes. Worked fine. Now that I'm a grownup, I like pressed steel wheels with tubeless, which are lighter. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Well, I can't argue that people want to ride what they want to ride. I just find it curious that they complain about flats and then won't change over to a tubeless that doesn't get flats. |
#126
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Flat repair
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:49:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:52:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 1:45:33 AM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:02:14 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/14/2018 5:02 PM, wrote: On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 1:35:34 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, wrote: Snipped https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY pfff..... Lou I like how they used a TUBE for the repair. Might as well just use a tube tire in the first place. Cheers Why? So that you can get five times the flats as a tubeless setup gets? Let me ask you again - why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless? You're beginning to sound like Joerg. "Why don't bicycles have chains as strong as motorcycles? Why don't bicycles have integrated charging systems and heated seats and power windows? Why don't bicycles protect us from the rain?" The requirements are different, so the engineering is different. Bicycles don't have spare tires already mounted on wheels inside their trunks. That alone is very significant. His question is an exaggeration. Every rubber tired vehicle does not use tubeless. I was looking at the wheel chairs in the Hospital the other day and they have foam filled tires. I came across an article that stated that many "Container" carrier trucks are still equipped with tubes. https://www.quora.com/Why-are-tubed-...ses-and-trucks Then I came across the Goodyear catalog for aircraft tires and see that the "standard" tire for the 747 is a tube tire. I could go on (and probably on) but it is obvious that the statement that "every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless" just isn't correct. Or perhaps it is a matter of "every tire that HE KNOWS ABOUT" is tubeless which says something about his qualifications as a tire expert. John, do you even bother to read the stuff you are posting? It plainly states in that article that they don't have tubeless tires because of the expense of upgrading to new style tires and rims. Certainly I read it and I did read that the cost was the deciding factor... but the other poster wrote "why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless?", which I was responding to: It seems to me that if a significant number of vehicles have not converted to tubeless, for financial, or whatever, reason that to blatantly argue that "EVERY OTHER RUBBER TIRED VEHICLE HAS CHANGED" is simply an example of ignorance of the subject. Hardly a statement that someone that was really familiar with the subject would make. If your argument is based, as most here appear, to be that you have an old bike for which conversion would cost more than the worth of the bike why the hell don't you argue THAT instead of using the phony arguments that they would be difficult to repair if you got the same sort of flat that would also make a tube tire worthless. The dumb-ass comment that you could fix one of these slashed open tires with a candybar wrapper is pretty inane. Or the claim that they don't get as good a performance when even the testing shows the theory of rolling resistance being less on a tire with less mass to e true as it is in every other case. I made no argument. I simply called attention to the fact that the individual that stated "why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless?" simply didn't know what he/she/it was talking about. An expert in misinformation, one might say. Look, I've been riding for 40 years. I've had a lot of flats. I have never successfully repaired a slashed tire with either an innertube section or ever found a candybar wrapper that would possibly hold anything together against the inflation pressure of a high performance tire. slash ~ verb common 1. cut with sweeping strokes; as with an ax or machete Do you mean that someone attacked your bicycle with a machete? Or did you really use the term to exaggerate your description of the tire damage and make it sound much worse then the actual? As a sailor I could also repair sails with heavy needles and nylon string. I'm pretty sure you could sew up a tire well enough to make it home against inflation pressure but again - that would work equally well with a tube or tubeless tire. As a Sailor (live aboard for more then 10 years) I might repair a sail with needles and thread but string is what you tie up Christmas presents with. |
#127
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Flat repair
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:49:35 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
As a Sailor (live aboard for more then 10 years) I might repair a sail with needles and thread but string is what you tie up Christmas presents with. I also lived aboard for a decade. I also worked on a lot of sails. I also did long distance racing on large sailboats. I'm a life member of the second oldest yacht club on San Francisco bay. And we always called it Sailmakers Yarn or String. Perhaps they have different terms in Outer Mongolia. Thread is for darning the holes in your socks. |
#128
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Flat repair
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. Tubless requires a stiffer sidewall and adds weight, my road bike is a gravel bike, tubed tyres tend to be about 320g tubeless tends to be 400g ish thus it’s frankly fairly even. There are very few Tubeless road race tyres, all have a reputation for fragility, ie they get cut to ribbons. Personally the hassle of set up isn’t worth it thus far for my MTB/gravel/commute bike, I tend to run similar pressures or lower to folks in the real world I know internet folks rider faster at lower pressures.... Roger Merriman |
#129
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Flat repair
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:09:35 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 12:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. People like tubeless for some applications where they make sense. Other people gave up on them in other applications. I don't feel strongly either way but they are certainly no panacea. Regarding weight, at least for road sizes, you're using a heavier rim liner and a heavier valve assembly plus 55~60 grams of latex to omit a 60~65 gram tube. There may be a weight savings but it can't be significant. People like what they like because they like it. That's fine, and argument enough. I don't see a compelling reason to change, certainly not from 300g tubulars. YMMV, and in your particular case it does. p.s. I drove a wire-wheeled car, the last 8 years with the latest hi-zoot Pirellis and matching tubes. Worked fine. Now that I'm a grownup, I like pressed steel wheels with tubeless, which are lighter. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Well, I can't argue that people want to ride what they want to ride. I just find it curious that they complain about flats and then won't change over to a tubeless that doesn't get flats. Tubeless most certainly does get flats even in its natural home MTB, ie low pressures, big volume, Tubeless doesn’t stop punctures it just reduces them. Hence worms and so on. Roger Merriman |
#130
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Flat repair
wrote:
On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 1:25:54 PM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 02:40:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 10:02:24 AM UTC+2, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 23:18:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 2:16:32 AM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote: On 8/15/2018 6:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2018 1:39 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 12:26:14 AM UTC-7, news18 wrote: On 14/08/18 08:48, wrote: Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you. Speaking of weight, just how heavier are these tubeless systems compared to the old tyre and tube system. You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products" or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles. +++ How many of these "every other rubber tyred vehcicles" are not driven by an ICE or similar power plant. P.S. you can leave out shopping trolleys. . Why are you arguing this? Tubeless tires are missing the weight of a tube. What's more, because the sealant is so reliable you can use lighter racing-style tires rather than armored tires such as the Gatorskins or the others of similar construction. The flat tests I presented earlier was a guy riding Continental 4000's - a racing tire that has minimal rolling resistance in the tests. I don't understand what you want us to do, Tom. I've got six personal bikes plus a tandem. Oh, plus another 1930s antique stored in the garage attic. They have five different wheel sizes. Surely you don't want me to run out and convert them all to tubeless? I have no current plans to buy another bike. If I start down that path, I might look at the issue. But I'm not seeing a compelling advantage. Right now, my main issue is learning how to repair them if there is a problem, because I do get recruited to help fix bike problems. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the goop. If it were possible to make a proper tubeless bcycle tire with out goop, we'd all ride them. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right. Goop is the reason I not even consider tubeless. Up to the last tire test in TOUR magazine the best tubeless tires had a higher RR compared to the best clincher tires. Now they are on par. They are a bit heavier and harder to mount. That would be all manageable for me but dealing with the goop not. Lou But from reading posts here it seemed like the anti-flat goop was main argument for using tubeless. Without goop I think the chance of a pinchflat is much lower so you can ride with lower pressures for traction reasons or comfort. That is an advantage riding off road on a cross bike or MTB. Pinchflats on a roadbike is a no issue for me. My flats on the roadbike are almost exlusively caused by small glass pieces or chips of rocks. For that you need the goop to make the tubeless tire self sealant. Lou Why the furor about tubeless and no flats. After all they have been making goop to inject into tire tubes and making them self sealing for about 30 years now. Strange that no one seems to be using that although it is considerably cheaper - about 2.00 a wheel. Why you ask me? Carl Fogel (how is he BTW) used that green stuff and I didn't know anyone who patched more flats than him. I don't think that green goop works for pinch flats. Tubeless does by default; no tube to pinch. For road bikes pinch flats aren't a problem at least not for me. Off road with a crossbike with 32-35 mm wide tires it is because you want to run them at low pressure for traction. If I gonna try tubeless it will be on my crossbike but without the goop. Lou Inner tubes with sealant, seem to be a bit marmite, some folks love them, other find they simply don’t work well, clearly they can pinch flat, equally they don’t seal all penetrating ones either. Either way doesn’t seem to work as well as tubeless with the sealant. Roger Merriman |
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