Frame Kit vs. Basic Model?

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

gotbent wrote:

Without going to hpvelo website to check, I would recommend the DT Swiss
air
shock. It is way better than either DNM that they offer as stock and the
one
they offer as the cheaper upgrade; lighter and easier to adjust and a
couple of hundred bucks more. I replaced the DNM (the one with the coil
spring and secondary air chamber) that was on my Speedmachine with the
DT.

Yeah, I'm about to get that Swiss Air shock, too. What do you think of
a MEKS AC upgrade on the front? Same easier to adjust advantage, too.
I'm most likely to go whole hog after all, for all Pete Clinch's advise
(oops!), but I'm curious as to opinions.

I have a Speedmachine. The front susp fork is 'built-in', not an add on so I
don't have experience with the MEKS, or Ballistic or whatever else has been
scavanged from the MTB world. White Bros. builds what is considered to be a
fine after market 20" susp fork, suitable for single and tandem bents for
about 700USD. Also no first hand experience with one.

I
also changed out the Magura Clara calipers with Magura Louise. I hated
the
Claras. They squealed and rubbed the rotors and finally the piston seals
started to leak. They work fine with the old Clara levers that were on
the
bike. I don't know why Hp offers a Maggy that's used on full-on downhill
and
freeride mountain bikes.

What do you think about the Magura Marta hydraulic disc brakes?

Just Clara and Louise knowledge. Clara=old=rubs, squeaks. Julie ok so
far.There is a mtb review site that you could check out for reviews on all
kind of stuff like disk brakes and lights and so forth.

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On 23 Feb 2006 13:45:14 -0800, "NYC XYZ"
wrote:

Then again, it's US$4,500.00 he's getting...sigh! I wonder if the
price will ever go down on an SMGTe bike....

An indelicate observation: The resale price of *any* new vehicle,
human-powered or otherwise, tends to take a dramatic dip as soon as
the rear wheel crosses the plane of the exit door of the dealership.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Tom Keats wrote:
...
I for one am not annoyed. But I am beginning to get the
impression recumbents are more about [thinking aboug] buying
than riding. Oh, well. Maybe they just require so much more
pre-purchase decision analysis....

Or maybe it is one (1) particular person who likes to ask a lot of
questions?

The last three (3) recumbents I obtained came looking for me, so there
was no pre-purchase analysis.
--
Tom Sherman

NYC XYZ wrote:
Say, what's a framekit, exactly, compared to a basic model?

For an upright bicycle, a frame kit is usually the bare frame and
possibly the fork (and headset) since all other components are
"standardized" to some extent and are readily available from multiple
sources.

Recumbent frame kits typically include the seat,
handlebars/riser/steering linkage, and chain management devices since
these are usually proprietary and not interchangeable between
manufacturers and/or models.

--
Tom Sherman

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" writes:

Tom Keats wrote:
...
I for one am not annoyed. But I am beginning to get the
impression recumbents are more about [thinking aboug] buying
than riding. Oh, well. Maybe they just require so much more
pre-purchase decision analysis....

Or maybe it is one (1) particular person who likes to ask a lot of
questions?

Well, with the confusing myriad of options with which NYC XYZ
appears to be confronted, I guess it's understandable.
But I think it does serve to illustrate how recumbent bicycles
are so complicatedly un-standard. Is it even possible to define
a "typical" recumbent bicycle? I think this could be one of
those things that is at once both a strength and weakness.

The last three (3) recumbents I obtained came looking for me, so there
was no pre-purchase analysis.
[...]

Yes, NYC can be a bit annoying with all his very elementary questions, but
he is saving ARBR from itself. So I would ask that you here on RBM have a
bit of patience. As soon as ARBR gets back on its feet, we will leave you to
yourselves. Remember this - all newsgroups need newbies. They perish
without them.

Most of us on ARBR have spent many years riding uprights and so we know
where you are at, but you do not yet know where we are at. We on ARBR no
longer have any interest in uprights, knowing how uncomfortable they are,
but it may be that in time many of you presently on uprights will come
around to recumbents. When you do, we will be here for you just like you are
here for us now.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Tom Keats wrote:

I for one am not annoyed. But I am beginning to get the
impression recumbents are more about [thinking aboug] buying
than riding.

Sad, as that's IMHO a bad way to go about it. The way to make decisions
IME is best left down to Actually Riding. It's a bit like hi-fi, you
can spend weeks and weeks going through options and features on paper,
or just spend a morning listening to a few. The first is what a lot of
people /do/, the second is easier and also works better...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Tom Keats wrote:

Well, with the confusing myriad of options with which NYC XYZ
appears to be confronted, I guess it's understandable.
But I think it does serve to illustrate how recumbent bicycles
are so complicatedly un-standard.

Yes, but OTOH no more so than cars. You don't buy a Ford Taurus, end of
story, you select the model from the range and then you decide on
options. People seem to manage with that, and have done for years.

Is coffee really /that/ much harder to buy because Starbucks give you
options beyond cream and sugar?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Tom Keats wrote:

I for one am not annoyed. But I am beginning to get the
impression recumbents are more about [thinking aboug] buying
than riding.

Sad, as that's IMHO a bad way to go about it. The way to make decisions
IME is best left down to Actually Riding. It's a bit like hi-fi, you can
spend weeks and weeks going through options and features on paper, or just
spend a morning listening to a few. The first is what a lot of people
/do/, the second is easier and also works better...

Pete.

Old Pete of the UK is out to lunch as always.

Relying on yourself to the exclusion of outside data and opinion is
ignorance of the first rank. You must always get as much information as you
can get from others and then digest it as best you can. I would never rely
on myself to have a correct opinion about anything. I am way too smart for
that. Nor do I trust my own experience least of all.

I urge all of you ignoramuses to never rely on yourselves. That way lies
madness. It would be best if you came to the Great Ed Dolan to get his
opinion, but you should also get many other opinions. The one thing never to
do is to think that you know what is best - because the likelihood is that
you don't.

That is why there are many publications and other sources available for you
to read and use as you see fit. I would never think about buying any hi-fi
gear without getting lots of data and other opinions. Good grief - this
thinking and doing for yourself is strickly for idiots.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Tom Keats wrote:

[...] recumbent bicycles are so complicatedly un-standard.

With apologies to Euell Gibbons: "Have you looked at a recumbent
bicycle lately? Many parts are standard..." %^) Recumbent purchasing
may be like _Stalking Wild Asparagus_!

But, there are a number of "off-the-rack" recumbents available. Many
people want to go into a store, ride a bike, and buy that bike as
configured. Others want to tweak and perfect a custom configuration.
Nothing wrong with either approach. Some vendors/manufacturers cater
to one approach or the other.

Configuring and buying a recumbent is only as complicated as one
makes it,-- well, somewhat more complicated because of often
limited availability.

"Peter Clinch" wrote
[...]
Is coffee really /that/ much harder to buy because Starbucks give you
options beyond cream and sugar?

To buy, perhaps somewhat harder,-- more information to communicate,
more possibility of misunderstanding and more possibility of fulfillment
error. I asked for a "double-what's-it-extra-foamy" not an
"extra-what's-it-
double-foamy"... %^)

With more choices, to decide *what* to buy,-- well Toffler wrote about
this 30+ years ago... %^P

Jon Meinecke

NYC XYZ wrote:

Oh, actually, he's got the bike already. You know, the ol' "display
model deal" LBSes do...though it looks new enough. He's got it already
upgraded, modestly, and I was like, hmm, why not just go all the
way....

Ah, but, for example, this bike's already got the V-brakes and standard
front and rear suspension on it...if I upgrade to discs, etc., can I
therefore expect to receive the V-brakes and suspension systems as
well? He's charging the full basic bike price, on top of the upgrades
-- again, all from HP Velo's own list.

You are forgetting the costs of labor to install all of these upgrades.
The labor has already been spent on configuring the bike as it
currently sits. Often when they upgrade parts at point of sale, the
upgrades are being charged to you for near their cost with little or
nothing thrown in to cover the additional labor.

What labor is involved? Well, you mention suspension and upgrades to
disc brakes. They have to order, receive and prep all of the parts. The
new front shock will likely need the steering tube cut. If you went
with cable-actuated discs, they may be able to re-use the cables, but
most likely they will have to cut new cables and housings for the
brakes. Since the sizes of the previous cables are pretty specific, the
"old" ones will likely end up in the trash. If you went with hydraulic,
then they have no choice but to run new hydraulic tubing.

Once the installation process is complete, then everything has to be
adjusted so it works properly. In all, you are talking about several
hours worth of additional labor that has to be paid for. Remember, the
initial costs for configuring the bike were already added into the
price and the original labor for setup is essentially lost.

Don't begrude the dealer keeping the parts. It helps him recoup the
additional cost of getting your butt on the bike. He hopes that later
you will come in and buy something more profitable like additional
upgrades and accessories.

-Buck