WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE

So has it been confirmed, then, that Andre is channeling Jobst?

Like Jobst, he feels we need more debate and need to argue further points of consideration. That's OK with me because I'm a master debater.

On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote:
On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote:

You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here.

I am sorry but, you are the joke here.

Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs.

Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision?

Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills.

Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte.... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling?

You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf The history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936.

Very well-written.

Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for
something better for the spousal unit's commute bike.

The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco
http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500.

Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan. http://www.somafab.com/faqs
That's not a bad thing, though.


Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive
quality frame, built in Free China ROC:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from
$795 complete:
http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...deep-blue.html

Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a
whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancement
http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command
the top level of custom fabrication:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/wfdopna2.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html

At the other end of the spectrum:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 4/16/2013 8:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame,
built in Free China ROC:

Wow, I haven't heard "Free China" or "Red China" used for a long time.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete:
http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...deep-blue.html

Poland? You mean countries behind the Iron Curtain are exporting bicycles?

Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less
than $3K, including frame end enhancement
http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

Would you mind opening up a shop in the Bay Area?

At the other end of the spectrum:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/

Not bad. Not the bars that the spousal unit prefers but that's a minor
change. She likes more swept back bars.

She likes the style of her present bike but I'd like something a little
lighter with 700C wheels and narrower tires and better components.

I need to find a shop that offers a complete bicycle with the Soma Mixte
where they don't charge MSRP for every component they put on.

I've also thought about the Novara Transfer and changing the stem to an
adjustable reach stem, the handlebars, adding a clamp on front
derailleur and triple crankset and a chain tensioner but the chain
tensioners seem to require a derailleur hanger which the Novara Transfer
lacks. A schlumpf is also a possibility but then it starts to get
ridiculously expensive. Better just to get something built with the Soma
frame.

On Apr 16, 11:56*am, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:









On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote:
On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote:

You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here.

I am sorry but, you are the joke here.

Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs.

Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision?

Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills.

Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte..... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling?

You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThe history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936.

Very well-written.

Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for
something better for the spousal unit's commute bike.

The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco
http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500.

Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs
That's not a bad thing, though.

Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive
quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from
$795 complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de...

Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a
whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command
the top level of custom fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...g/wfdopen.html

At the other end of the spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/

Out of curiosity: If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country
(Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the
components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in
the days of the old French bikes?

- Frank Krygowski

On 4/16/2013 3:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:56 am, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:









On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote:
On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote:

You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here.

I am sorry but, you are the joke here.

Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs.

Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision?

Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills.

Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte.... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling?

You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThe history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936.

Very well-written.

Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for
something better for the spousal unit's commute bike.

The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco
http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500.

Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs
That's not a bad thing, though.

Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive
quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from
$795 complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de...

Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a
whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command
the top level of custom fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...g/wfdopen.html

At the other end of the spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/

Out of curiosity: If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country
(Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the
components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in
the days of the old French bikes?

- Frank Krygowski


I suppose the correct answer could be 'all of the above'.

In the case of the Creme, it's Shimano gearbox with optional
Shimano front drum or dynamo hub and all the usual modern
parts you see on everything else with modern BSC threading.

p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms
Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are
not unusual countries.

p.p.s. The French standard is called SI, Standard
Internationale, probably with a smile!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Apr 16, 5:02*pm, AMuzi wrote:

p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms
Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are
not unusual countries.

I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual
country. That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are
bad.

- Frank Krygowski

On 4/16/2013 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 16, 5:02 pm, AMuzi wrote:

p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms
Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are
not unusual countries.

I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual
country. That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are
bad.


Duly noted by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would
be a rifle behind each blade of grass."


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2013-04-16 20:48:13 +0000, Frank Krygowski said:

On Apr 16, 11:56Â*am, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:









On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote:
On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote:

You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here.

I am sorry but, you are the joke here.

Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup
comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs.

Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision?

Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass
production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford
prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this
level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum
entry skills.

Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte....
compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling?

You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf,
that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte
athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThe history you
want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will
find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my
bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few
exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor
of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936.

Very well-written.

Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for
something better for the spousal unit's commute bike.

The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco
http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500.

Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs
That's not a bad thing, though.

Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive
quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from
$795
complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de...


Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a
whole lot less than $3K, including frame end
enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command
the top level of custom
fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...g/wfdopen.html


At the other end of the
spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/

Out of curiosity: If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country
(Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the
components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in
the days of the old French bikes?

- Frank Krygowski

That is a strange question from someone from a bicycle third world country.
--

Lou

On Apr 16, 5:36*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2013-04-16 20:48:13 +0000, Frank Krygowski said:









On Apr 16, 11:56*am, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote:
On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote:

You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here.

I am sorry but, you are the joke here.

Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup
comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs.

Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision?

Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass
production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford
prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this
level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum
entry skills.

Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte....
compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling?

You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf,
that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte
athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThehistory you
want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will
find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my
bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few
exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor
of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936.

Very well-written.

Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for
something better for the spousal unit's commute bike.

The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco
http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500.

Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs
That's not a bad thing, though.

Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive
quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from
$795
complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de...

Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a
whole lot less than $3K, including frame end
enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html

Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command
the top level of custom
fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr....jpghttp://www....

At the other end of the
spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/

Out of curiosity: *If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country
(Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the
components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in
the days of the old French bikes?

- Frank Krygowski

That is a strange question from someone from a bicycle third world country.

My question could have been phrased better. I intended to ask about
buying a bike from a country from which Americans don't usually buy
bikes. IOW, how universal are component standards?

- Frank Krygowski

On Apr 16, 5:13*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Apr 16, 5:02 pm, AMuzi wrote:

p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms
Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are
not unusual countries.

I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual
country. *That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are
bad.

Duly noted by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would
be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

That's all that's kept the Canadians from conquering us, for sure!

But I think our gun fixation, weird as it is, is far from the biggest
difference between the U.S. and most other countries.

- Frank Krygowski