Bicycle accident = glad i had my Helmet on this time

Op 15-8-2010 19:35, Tim McNamara schreef:
In ,
Lou wrote:

Op 15-8-2010 16:54, Frank Krygowski schreef:


Frank you are wearing us out. Go ride bike with or without helmet. We
don't care.


So is Scharf wearing us out. Are you going to tell him the same thing?
At least Frank attempts to bring scientific rigor to the discussion,
unlike most of his detractors.


Frank posted almost 100 helmet related posts over the last week HUNDRED!
Where does he find the time? Does he expect us to read all this and all
the references he makes in these posts? For me it is really simple. On
fast group rides, rides involving fast descents and off road riding I
wear a helmet. On other rides I don't. Makes life a lot easier. If
someone can proof to me that wearing a helmet is MORE dangerous overall
than I'll be interested. Otherwise I do my own risk calculation and
decide for myself. Scharf or Frank don't going to change that.
Fortunately mandatory helmet wearing in the Netherlands isn't gone
happen because it is unpractical.


Lou

On 15/08/10 10:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Frank posted almost 100 helmet related posts over the last week HUNDRED!
Where does he find the time? Does he expect us to read all this and all
the references he makes in these posts? For me it is really simple. On
fast group rides, rides involving fast descents and off road riding I
wear a helmet. On other rides I don't. Makes life a lot easier. If
someone can proof to me that wearing a helmet is MORE dangerous overall
than I'll be interested. Otherwise I do my own risk calculation and
decide for myself. Scharf or Frank don't going to change that.
Fortunately mandatory helmet wearing in the Netherlands isn't gone
happen because it is unpractical.

The big differences is that I post referenced facts based on
scientifically and statistically sound studies. Frank posts about
walking helmets, gardening helmets, and his only reference is the widely
discredited cyclehelmets.org site.

Frank's lack of logic, dismissal of statistically and scientifically
sound studies, and statements regarding things like driving helmets are
merely efforts to justify his own behavior. Almost no one on Usenet
falls for these antics, and if he continues with that sort of thing in
any efforts to fight MHLs then he will be doing the cause great harm.

Frank would do well to take the advice of Diane Thompson: "If you truly
wish to move the science forward in this area, we respectfully request
that you all take some formal courses in the use of Epidemiological
methods, non-experimental design and biostatistics. After that you
should review the whole body of peer-reviewed published information with
an open mind and see where your review leads you. We predict it will
lead you to the conclusion that we have reached, that cycle helmets
prevent head and brain injuries and increased wearing rates result in
decreased head and brain injuries in cyclists."

On Aug 15, 6:18*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Aug 15, 8:39*am, Andre Jute wrote:

On Aug 15, 4:08*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 15-8-2010 16:54, Frank Krygowski schreef:

Frank you are wearing us out. Go ride bike with or without helmet. We
don't care.

Lou

Amen!

Going right now -- it's supposed to be 98F today in PDX, which is
freakishly hot for us -- SOP for Chalo, but not here in the PNW. I'll
have my helmet on because it has magical powers and keeps away polar
bears..-- Jay Beattie.

Been. Was looking forward to speeding down a favourite hill. Closed
for repairs not starting until tomorrow (Monday). ****ed off for a
bit. Sat beside a stream letting its gentle burble soothe my soul. --
AJ

On Aug 15, 6:18*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Aug 15, 8:39*am, Andre Jute wrote:

On Aug 15, 4:08*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 15-8-2010 16:54, Frank Krygowski schreef:

Frank you are wearing us out. Go ride bike with or without helmet. We
don't care.

Lou

Amen!

Going right now -- it's supposed to be 98F today in PDX, which is
freakishly hot for us -- SOP for Chalo, but not here in the PNW. I'll
have my helmet on because it has magical powers and keeps away polar
bears..-- Jay Beattie.

Been. Was looking forward to speeding down a favourite hill. Closed
for repairs not starting until tomorrow (Monday). ****ed off for a
bit. Sat beside a stream letting its gentle burble soothe my soul. --
AJ

{Hugh Jass Memorial Snip}

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...


Poor old Krygo. If you were such a good Christian as you always claim
you are, Bill, you too would feel sorry poor old Krygo. (FX: Smug
giggle.)

Whoa. Please point out where I've ever (much less always) claimed to be "a
Christian", good or otherwise.

I do believe in a higher power (I call God) and basic Judeo-Christian
values, but other than being forced to go to Sunday School in my youth I've
never attended any church save for weddings, funerals and the rare Christmas
Eve service a zillion years ago or so.

Bill "spiritual trumps religious" S.

"Lou Holtman" wrote in message
...

Frank you are wearing us out. Go ride bike with or without helmet. We
don't care.

POTD!

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 15-8-2010 16:54, Frank Krygowski schreef:


Frank you are wearing us out. Go ride bike with or without helmet. We
don't care.


So is Scharf wearing us out. Are you going to tell him the same thing?
At least Frank attempts to bring scientific rigor to the discussion,
unlike most of his detractors.

Ummm.... Just look at this thread. One guy merely shared a story about a
crash and being grateful that his helmet protected his head. Why all the
uproar? SMS never would have entered the discussion (probably) if the
hysterical AHZ contingent hadn't bitched, whined and moaned en masse.

HTH!

BS

On Aug 15, 10:45 am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,



"MikeWhy" wrote:
"Dan O" wrote in message
.
..
On Aug 14, 6:14 am, m-gineering
wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 09:01:42 +0200, m-gineering
wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

So that's roughly one in fifteen million miles, including
screaming mountain descents, mass sprint finishes, incredible
fatigue, close- packed riding around obstacles, etc.

You forgot: On roads closed to traffic, by riders of above
average skill, in a group which behaves in a predictable
manner, with bikes checked over by mechanics daily...

(let's have the whole picture before deciding if helmets work
)

Dear Lou,

Wouldn't the whole picture also include much more frequent
crashes by Tour de France riders at significantly higher speeds
than typical bicyclists?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

My point was that painting a very single sided picture to counter
opponents painting a very single sided picture isn't a great
discussion tactic

Right! Right! Exactly right!

If I take what seems to me a fair "to each his own" view on typical
helmet use, making *no judgment whatsoever* of anyone who chooses
*not* to wear a helmet, but merely try to explain in any way my
decision to *sometimes* use a helmet, this is reliably met with the
by now standard insinuations that I personally must be afraid of
shadows, unable to think for myself, not thinking clearly, and
probably a bad rider.

Having heard the charges, how pleads the Defendant?

Jeez, what is wrong with this picture?

Dan O. decides to misinterpret, overinterpret, personalize and
irrationalize the discussion as a personal attack on himself...

not just me

In article
,
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Aug 15, 3:19Â*am, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Â*"Duane Hebert" wrote:

Which person actually posted that their helmet saved their life?
I may have said that dented my helmet and not my head but I
specifically said that I had no idea what damage I would have
had without the helmet, only that it probably would have hurt.

Without the helmet your head might never have struck anything.

[...]

That is a lot of words.
Would you condense it for the slow group?

--
Michael Press

On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I've never seen anything irrefutable from Jute. That includes his
claim that he rode his comfort bike down an Irish hill at over 60
mph. And his claims about heroically hunting crocodiles, fighting in
African rebellions, dismantling Rolexes in his jail cell for his own
ransom (then later reassembling), having statues of himself erected by
worshiping natives, rescuing maidens tied to railroad tracks,
designing world-record cars, assembling audiophile amplifiers from
paper clips and lemons, or any of the rest.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/6c8bdcdf15045008/def10017bd53afc4?hl=fr&q=#def10017bd53afc4