Teaching Your Body To Burn Fat?

With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

i.e. For training purposes... given that fluids and electrolytes
are kept in balance, doesn't it make more sense to go until one
runs out of sugar and then go a little more before taking on
calories - in hopes of stimulating the body's ability to use fat
reserves?

--
PeteCresswell

On 2010-04-06, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

i.e. For training purposes... given that fluids and electrolytes
are kept in balance, doesn't it make more sense to go until one
runs out of sugar and then go a little more before taking on
calories - in hopes of stimulating the body's ability to use fat
reserves?

Well I read somewhere that you can't really burn fat unless you've also
got some carbohydrate on the go for some kind of chemical reason.

So if you run out of sugar it's muscles next, then organs. Although I
have to say I would have expected better from Evolution.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

i.e. For training purposes... given that fluids and electrolytes
are kept in balance, doesn't it make more sense to go until one
runs out of sugar and then go a little more before taking on
calories - in hopes of stimulating the body's ability to use fat
reserves?

I think a good answer is "yes, but...". Another good answer is that,
since glucose exhaustion / bonk doesn't have a bright "starting point,"
you're already training your body by tickling the line.

disclaimer: This advice is based on years of personal perceptions, not
scientific research

I think that pushing into a full-fledged bonk is not going to be
practically beneficial, if only because you'll avoid the bike for a
while afterward. Lots of long rides where you eat the minimum
(discovered by trial and error) /to avoid/ the rubbery-legs feeling
should help. Then on rides where performance is important (or you just
want to really enjoy yourself), eat substantially more.

You can ride longer before bonk, and I think burn fat better, on
lower-intensity rides. The occasional extra-long mellow ride could be
worth adding into your training. Riding with weaker riders will help
you hold the intensity down - I find I often push on solo rides where I
had promised myself I would take it easy.

Finally, give it time. I suspect that metabolic changes, which are
probably going to be modest at best anyway, take a lot longer than
strength/aerobic changes.

Good luck,

Mark J.

Per Mark J.:
The occasional extra-long mellow ride could be
worth adding into your training. Riding with weaker riders will help
you hold the intensity down

No problem there... *all* my rides are "mellow" (if, in fact,
that is a euphuism for "slow").

I *am* the weaker rider..... -)
--
PeteCresswell

On Apr 6, 2:46*pm, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

Pete,
I suspect I'm again in the minority opinion. First, I suggested you
just ride -- then think about the perfect bike, later. Now, I'm
suggesting that a low carb diet will get the fat burning "on-the-
fly." Mark's Daily Apple is pretty popular among luddite cyclists
now-a-days -- and advances the low carb theory:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/.

Best,
Larry "primal fat burner, ez-rider" Fieman

"Mark J." wrote in message
...
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

i.e. For training purposes... given that fluids and electrolytes
are kept in balance, doesn't it make more sense to go until one
runs out of sugar and then go a little more before taking on
calories - in hopes of stimulating the body's ability to use fat
reserves?

I think a good answer is "yes, but...". Another good answer is that,
since glucose exhaustion / bonk doesn't have a bright "starting point,"
you're already training your body by tickling the line.

disclaimer: This advice is based on years of personal perceptions, not
scientific research

I think that pushing into a full-fledged bonk is not going to be
practically beneficial, if only because you'll avoid the bike for a while
afterward. Lots of long rides where you eat the minimum (discovered by
trial and error) /to avoid/ the rubbery-legs feeling should help. Then on
rides where performance is important (or you just want to really enjoy
yourself), eat substantially more.

You can ride longer before bonk, and I think burn fat better, on
lower-intensity rides. The occasional extra-long mellow ride could be
worth adding into your training. Riding with weaker riders will help you
hold the intensity down - I find I often push on solo rides where I had
promised myself I would take it easy.

Finally, give it time. I suspect that metabolic changes, which are
probably going to be modest at best anyway, take a lot longer than
strength/aerobic changes.

Good luck,

Mark J.

This is my reading of recent research too although I'd suggest medium rather
than mellow, either way just don't go all out as this does deplete muscle
stores of gylcogen, ATP etc. It's marathon pace and principles.

However, it's my experience that fatloss is basically all diet. I'm a
clydesdale and a year ago underwent a huge but healthy exercise regime where
I lost crap loads of fat and put a bit of muscle on. I was mostly eating
whatever I liked so it took some time to lose. More recently I've just cut
how much I eat and am doing much less exercise. Fatloss has been more
dramatic. I top it off with a weights session to keep the muscle, when I can
be bothered.

What's your body type Pete? I think I remember you saying you're quite tall,
6 footer?

Per Noriek:

What's your body type Pete? I think I remember you saying you're quite tall,
6 footer?

Well, when I was living in a sort of commune in Hawaii - and most
of the other guys were body builders - my nickname was "Chicken
Man" - due, I'm pretty sure, to my resemblance to a plucked
chicken.

I was obese in high school (267#), but managed to get sick enough
during my freshman year at Bucknell to loose 102 pounds.... so
I'm not what you'd call a mesomorph....

Surfing got me back up to 185-190. 24 years in front of a
computer got me up to around 200.

Right now I'm at 212#. Been telling myself that I need to lose
15 pounds for about 20 years... but have succeeded only in
gaining 12... -)

Spent last year riding the burnout express - as in 10-12 billable
hours a day seven days a week for months at a time - which
translates to more like 16-hour days....

Been out of work since mid-December and, frankly, have yet to get
the urge to find another project.

It's finally dawned on me that the weight gain cannot
continue.... so I'm hoping to deal with it now that I have the
free time to rack up the miles on a regular basis.

The main tricks are going to be to not mess myself up by
overdoing it, and to maintain whatever progress I make.
--
PeteCresswell

On 6 Apr, 19:46, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

i.e. For training purposes... given that fluids and electrolytes
are kept in balance, doesn't it make more sense to go until one
runs out of sugar and then go a little more before taking on
calories - in hopes of stimulating the body's ability to use fat
reserves?

--
PeteCresswell

Early season training should incorporate LSD (long steady distance).
These are moderate pace rides which take you into fat burning. If you
go into hard training without doing a few regular 3hr+rides at
moderate pace first, you will bonk, usually around 2hours if you are
at 90%. This can be useful in later training to increase glycogen
uptake capacity. For training fat metabolism, you should ride at a
lower rate (fixed gears are perfect for this). Start in the biggest
fixed sprocket you can obtain and ride for 3hrs+ every day you can.
Move up your gearing as long as you are completing your required ride
time and can comfortably spin out the present gear (180rpm ish) with
finesse.

Carbo uptake should be small and regular, and your usual sugared drink
can be taken of one mouthful probably each 1/2 hour, with your main
fluid being mineral water. Fruit jellies also help, carefully
regulated. The ideal is to take your body till it is almost exhausted
of glycogen and hold it there at that low level. Without a sugar
feed, your body will start shutting down because your organs
(including brain, pancreas, spleen and liver) cannot function without
it, the voluntary muscles are at the back of the queue when it comes
to getting new glycogen from the liver. The steady trickle will
prevent you bonking, but not supply sufficient energy to power your
legs. Coffee (the real stuff) and chocolate (dark, bitter) are good
pre-ride to encourage fat metabolism, just dont go putting seven
sugars in the coffee (it doesn't fit into an espresso, but might in a
mocha). If you prefer to drink plain water on the bike and no
treats, then take a hunk of rich fruit cake with that coffee and stuff
a bit in you pocket in case you feel you are running low late into
your ride.
Previous meals should be normal in carb loading so as not to be too
different from the day you are training for.

On 6 Apr, 22:23, "Mark J." wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
With most physical development that I can think of, the
development is triggered by pushing that aspect of the body past
it's normal limits.

Shouldn't the same apply to building up whatever it is that
enables us to burn fat on-the-fly?

i.e. For training purposes... given that fluids and electrolytes
are kept in balance, doesn't it make more sense to go until one
runs out of sugar and then go a little more before taking on
calories - in hopes of stimulating the body's ability to use fat
reserves?

I think a good answer is "yes, but...". *Another good answer is that,
since glucose exhaustion / bonk doesn't have a bright "starting point,"
you're already training your body by tickling the line.

disclaimer: This advice is based on years of personal perceptions, not
scientific research

I think that pushing into a full-fledged bonk is not going to be
practically beneficial, if only because you'll avoid the bike for a
while afterward. *Lots of long rides where you eat the minimum
(discovered by trial and error) /to avoid/ the rubbery-legs feeling
should help. *Then on rides where performance is important (or you just
want to really enjoy yourself), eat substantially more.

You can ride longer before bonk, and I think burn fat better, on
lower-intensity rides. *The occasional extra-long mellow ride could be
worth adding into your training. *Riding with weaker riders will help
you hold the intensity down - I find I often push on solo rides where I
had promised myself I would take it easy.

Finally, give it time. *I suspect that metabolic changes, which are
probably going to be modest at best anyway, take a lot longer than
strength/aerobic changes.

Good luck,

Mark J.

Not far off the mark. There was a club member who's racing weight
must have been around 9 stone and every December he would turn into
Bibendum, adding on at least another 3 stone. He would work (joinery)
and ride each day for six weeks and have shifted off all the excess
bar 5lbs. This had been done repeatedly each year, and ten years
later I believe he was still doing the same, although not for racing
training. He was unable to keep up with the leaner less experienced
members in January, but was dedicated to progression of training and
would be one of the top twenty riders of the division by March. We
had organised pre-season hard training rides and he would certainly be
one of the driving members in the later sessions.

On 6 Apr, 22:50, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Per Mark J.:

The occasional extra-long mellow ride could be
worth adding into your training. *Riding with weaker riders will help
you hold the intensity down

No problem there... *all* my rides are "mellow" (if, in fact,
that is a euphuism for "slow").

I *am* the weaker rider..... -)
--
PeteCresswell

Rides should be steady, not slow. Making 18mph ave?