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#171
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Are CF frames really safe?
On Tue, 30 May 2017 07:49:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/29/2017 9:08 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 9:25:08 PM UTC-7, James wrote: On 29/05/17 12:54, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 07:29:33 +1000, James wrote: On 28/05/17 21:50, John B. wrote: On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:00:49 +1000, James wrote: On 27/05/17 23:13, John B. wrote: But a professional anything wants to win and will work hard to win. If the choices are a bike that is comfortable and another that goes up hill like a scalded cat then the comfortable bike gets left behind. But the differences are not that pronounced. Probably not but my point was that any real competitor wants to win and given the choice of a comfortable bike and a bike that is, say 10 minutes faster up "Big Bad Mountain" my guess he will ride the faster bike. For a 1 hour long steep climb where wind resistance is negligible, to be 10 minutes faster, the weight of the fast bike + rider would need to be about 5/6ths the slow. That would mean somewhere in the vicinity of 10kg weight reduction. Is that why Froome threw his bike away last year in Le Tour and began to run, do you think? Well yes, a 10 minute faster bike is a bit of a stretch but the point is that you, or any other serious contestant, will take every advantage that they can and if a bike is faster for a certain race then I suggest that you will select it over a more comfortable bile. I knew what the point was. I suggest that when you spend 4-6 hours a day racing over mountains and such on public roads, comfort isn't ignored because at the end of the day a rider that feels a bit fresher by not having been beaten by his bicycle, is more likely to win - all else being equal. Comfort, to some extent at least, is an advantage. I think John B. is envisioning a TT or aero-bike where rider position is learned and totally uncomfortable for civilians. I've never found a properly fitted racing bike uncomfortable. I've never had a bike that "beat me to death" on ordinary roads when it was properly adjusted, although some of the early clincher tires were like riding on wagon wheels as compared to tubulars. Those days are gone, and I would bet that the best clinchers with latex tubes are pretty close to tubular comfort. -- Jay Beattie. You can still buy them good old, 19mm, 150psi, sew-ups :-) I owned a set of Panaracer 150 gram 18mm tubulars for a morning. Gave them away that afternoon. I was going to ask some of the proponents of "comfortable" bikes whether they had ever ridden on 18 or19mm, 150 psi, sew-ups. If I remember they were the tire of choice for the go-fast crowd :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
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#172
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Are CF frames really safe?
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:30:02 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 07:49:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 5/29/2017 9:08 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 9:25:08 PM UTC-7, James wrote: On 29/05/17 12:54, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 07:29:33 +1000, James wrote: On 28/05/17 21:50, John B. wrote: On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:00:49 +1000, James wrote: On 27/05/17 23:13, John B. wrote: But a professional anything wants to win and will work hard to win. If the choices are a bike that is comfortable and another that goes up hill like a scalded cat then the comfortable bike gets left behind. But the differences are not that pronounced. Probably not but my point was that any real competitor wants to win and given the choice of a comfortable bike and a bike that is, say 10 minutes faster up "Big Bad Mountain" my guess he will ride the faster bike. For a 1 hour long steep climb where wind resistance is negligible, to be 10 minutes faster, the weight of the fast bike + rider would need to be about 5/6ths the slow. That would mean somewhere in the vicinity of 10kg weight reduction.. Is that why Froome threw his bike away last year in Le Tour and began to run, do you think? Well yes, a 10 minute faster bike is a bit of a stretch but the point is that you, or any other serious contestant, will take every advantage that they can and if a bike is faster for a certain race then I suggest that you will select it over a more comfortable bile.. I knew what the point was. I suggest that when you spend 4-6 hours a day racing over mountains and such on public roads, comfort isn't ignored because at the end of the day a rider that feels a bit fresher by not having been beaten by his bicycle, is more likely to win - all else being equal. Comfort, to some extent at least, is an advantage.. I think John B. is envisioning a TT or aero-bike where rider position is learned and totally uncomfortable for civilians. I've never found a properly fitted racing bike uncomfortable. I've never had a bike that "beat me to death" on ordinary roads when it was properly adjusted, although some of the early clincher tires were like riding on wagon wheels as compared to tubulars. Those days are gone, and I would bet that the best clinchers with latex tubes are pretty close to tubular comfort. -- Jay Beattie. You can still buy them good old, 19mm, 150psi, sew-ups :-) I owned a set of Panaracer 150 gram 18mm tubulars for a morning. Gave them away that afternoon. I was going to ask some of the proponents of "comfortable" bikes whether they had ever ridden on 18 or19mm, 150 psi, sew-ups. If I remember they were the tire of choice for the go-fast crowd :-) -- Cheers, John B. I don't know about 19mm tubulars but I do know that very high pressure 19mm clinchers I tried gave a much more punishing ride on the same wheels and bike got 25mm or 28mm tires later. Cheers |
#173
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Are CF frames really safe?
On Tue, 30 May 2017 19:09:49 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:30:02 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: On Tue, 30 May 2017 07:49:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 5/29/2017 9:08 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 9:25:08 PM UTC-7, James wrote: On 29/05/17 12:54, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 07:29:33 +1000, James wrote: On 28/05/17 21:50, John B. wrote: On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:00:49 +1000, James wrote: On 27/05/17 23:13, John B. wrote: But a professional anything wants to win and will work hard to win. If the choices are a bike that is comfortable and another that goes up hill like a scalded cat then the comfortable bike gets left behind. But the differences are not that pronounced. Probably not but my point was that any real competitor wants to win and given the choice of a comfortable bike and a bike that is, say 10 minutes faster up "Big Bad Mountain" my guess he will ride the faster bike. For a 1 hour long steep climb where wind resistance is negligible, to be 10 minutes faster, the weight of the fast bike + rider would need to be about 5/6ths the slow. That would mean somewhere in the vicinity of 10kg weight reduction. Is that why Froome threw his bike away last year in Le Tour and began to run, do you think? Well yes, a 10 minute faster bike is a bit of a stretch but the point is that you, or any other serious contestant, will take every advantage that they can and if a bike is faster for a certain race then I suggest that you will select it over a more comfortable bile. I knew what the point was. I suggest that when you spend 4-6 hours a day racing over mountains and such on public roads, comfort isn't ignored because at the end of the day a rider that feels a bit fresher by not having been beaten by his bicycle, is more likely to win - all else being equal. Comfort, to some extent at least, is an advantage. I think John B. is envisioning a TT or aero-bike where rider position is learned and totally uncomfortable for civilians. I've never found a properly fitted racing bike uncomfortable. I've never had a bike that "beat me to death" on ordinary roads when it was properly adjusted, although some of the early clincher tires were like riding on wagon wheels as compared to tubulars. Those days are gone, and I would bet that the best clinchers with latex tubes are pretty close to tubular comfort. -- Jay Beattie. You can still buy them good old, 19mm, 150psi, sew-ups :-) I owned a set of Panaracer 150 gram 18mm tubulars for a morning. Gave them away that afternoon. I was going to ask some of the proponents of "comfortable" bikes whether they had ever ridden on 18 or19mm, 150 psi, sew-ups. If I remember they were the tire of choice for the go-fast crowd :-) -- Cheers, John B. I don't know about 19mm tubulars but I do know that very high pressure 19mm clinchers I tried gave a much more punishing ride on the same wheels and bike got 25mm or 28mm tires later. Cheers Way back when I used to ride around on high pressure tubulars and thought that they were normal :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#174
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Are CF frames really safe?
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 6:30:02 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 May 2017 07:49:15 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 5/29/2017 9:08 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 08:06:21 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 9:25:08 PM UTC-7, James wrote: On 29/05/17 12:54, John B. wrote: On Mon, 29 May 2017 07:29:33 +1000, James wrote: On 28/05/17 21:50, John B. wrote: On Sun, 28 May 2017 13:00:49 +1000, James wrote: On 27/05/17 23:13, John B. wrote: But a professional anything wants to win and will work hard to win. If the choices are a bike that is comfortable and another that goes up hill like a scalded cat then the comfortable bike gets left behind. But the differences are not that pronounced. Probably not but my point was that any real competitor wants to win and given the choice of a comfortable bike and a bike that is, say 10 minutes faster up "Big Bad Mountain" my guess he will ride the faster bike. For a 1 hour long steep climb where wind resistance is negligible, to be 10 minutes faster, the weight of the fast bike + rider would need to be about 5/6ths the slow. That would mean somewhere in the vicinity of 10kg weight reduction.. Is that why Froome threw his bike away last year in Le Tour and began to run, do you think? Well yes, a 10 minute faster bike is a bit of a stretch but the point is that you, or any other serious contestant, will take every advantage that they can and if a bike is faster for a certain race then I suggest that you will select it over a more comfortable bile.. I knew what the point was. I suggest that when you spend 4-6 hours a day racing over mountains and such on public roads, comfort isn't ignored because at the end of the day a rider that feels a bit fresher by not having been beaten by his bicycle, is more likely to win - all else being equal. Comfort, to some extent at least, is an advantage.. I think John B. is envisioning a TT or aero-bike where rider position is learned and totally uncomfortable for civilians. I've never found a properly fitted racing bike uncomfortable. I've never had a bike that "beat me to death" on ordinary roads when it was properly adjusted, although some of the early clincher tires were like riding on wagon wheels as compared to tubulars. Those days are gone, and I would bet that the best clinchers with latex tubes are pretty close to tubular comfort. -- Jay Beattie. You can still buy them good old, 19mm, 150psi, sew-ups :-) I owned a set of Panaracer 150 gram 18mm tubulars for a morning. Gave them away that afternoon. I was going to ask some of the proponents of "comfortable" bikes whether they had ever ridden on 18 or19mm, 150 psi, sew-ups. If I remember they were the tire of choice for the go-fast crowd :-) My memory was that you used 23 or 24 mm tubulars and ran them with less pressure than in clinchers so that they would corner better. |
#175
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Are CF frames really safe?
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#176
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Are CF frames really safe?
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