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A March on Washington... on Bicycle?



 
 
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  #141  
Old November 23rd 08, 09:20 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

ComandanteBanana wrote:

I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
America, it's kind of in-between. In other words, the more civilized
the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
Oslo or Canary Islands.


I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to think
all of the US, or all of Britain, or all of Columbia, or all of any
country on the planet, is equally safe everywhere within its
borders. But you go ahead and prove me wrong.

You don't listen, so time to stop pretending you might. Bye.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
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  #142  
Old November 24th 08, 12:25 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe


"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
ComandanteBanana wrote:

I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
America, it's kind of in-between. In other words, the more civilized
the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
Oslo or Canary Islands.


I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to think all of
the US, or all of Britain, or all of Columbia, or all of any country on
the planet, is equally safe everywhere within its borders. But you go
ahead and prove me wrong.

You don't listen, so time to stop pretending you might. Bye.


CommandanteBanana is more right than poor old Pete of Dundee, Scotland. It
is possible to make some generalizations about Colombia the same as it is to
make some generalizations about Norway with a view to contrasting the
differences between the two. Frankly, the less we hear from Pete, the
better. I have never yet known him to be right about anything.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #143  
Old November 24th 08, 12:30 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe


"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article
,
ComandanteBanana writes:
On Nov 22, 12:23 am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
Peter Clinch writes:



Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.

Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
cyclists. Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.

They will behave as they previously desired & expected
cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
been humbled.

It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
been humbled at all.

It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
the world.

Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.


You just love to scare riders off the roads.
That's your goal, your objective.
Matthew 7:16

But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sometimes you're almost funny.

perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
who terrorize cyclists.
So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
predatory drivers?


Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.

But keep trying. You no doubt will, anyway.

http://bicyclesafe.com/
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/safety.htm
http://bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm


Actually, it is very dangerous to ride a bicycle in Florida. The roads are
narrow and crowded and high speed with no shoulders. It is the perfect storm
for getting yourself killed.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #144  
Old November 24th 08, 03:39 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
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Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 23, 11:48 am, "marika" wrote:
"Dane Buson" wrote in message

...



That's what I've observed for myself. That the thing that really
motivates most poeple is when the cost to their pocketbook rises. This
is especially true if it's a rapid rise. Inconveinence in the form of
traffic jams, poor parking and other things help also. But cost seems
to be a big driver (no pun intended) of people's change in behaviour.


--


the price in some places is down to 1.70, though


It's funny, gas prices are down, and so are SUV sales. So I guess
people will have to ride bikes because they can't afford cars.

Whatever the reason, the result is good, and I feel good...

Yeah, that's why I get so depressed... the price of oil is going
down.

But then I remember that we are in the middle of a huge economic
crisis and that the Big Three are trying to survive after producing
so
many fat SUVs, and finally I get happy.
  #145  
Old November 24th 08, 03:40 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 23, 11:48 am, "marika" wrote:
"Dane Buson" wrote in message

...



That's what I've observed for myself. That the thing that really
motivates most poeple is when the cost to their pocketbook rises. This
is especially true if it's a rapid rise. Inconveinence in the form of
traffic jams, poor parking and other things help also. But cost seems
to be a big driver (no pun intended) of people's change in behaviour.


--


the price in some places is down to 1.70, though


It's funny, gas prices are down, and so are SUV sales. So I guess
people will have to ride bikes because they can't afford cars.

Whatever the reason, the result is good, and I feel good...

Yeah, that's why I get so depressed... the price of oil is going
down.

But then I remember that we are in the middle of a huge economic
crisis and that the Big Three are trying to survive after producing
so
many fat SUVs, and finally I get happy.

  #146  
Old November 24th 08, 03:43 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 23, 11:55*am, "marika" wrote:
"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...



Tom, I'm saying the WHOLE SYSTEM, down to the lack of space for
cyclists and up to the gated communities, hints at a jungle where only
the strongest survive.


this is scary.


Yes, the jungle is scary.


You get it, or playing dumb?


this is really scary


Camouflage is a way of life in the jungle.


Read this and see my solutions to this jungle...
(Yes, bike facilities are in the program)
COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
"Communism forgets that life is individual.


can't remember discussing your work ethic with him


We are fighting the jungle.


Capitalism forgets that
life is social, and the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the
thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism but in a higher
synthesis.


hard worker, no


Why work so hard to feed the lions.


It is found in a higher synthesis that combines the truths
of both." -M.L. King
A PROGRAM FOR A BETTER WORLD


this is promotional material for Space Nuts 2008


It's also a strategy for survival for the human species.
  #147  
Old November 24th 08, 03:47 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 23, 3:38*pm, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * ComandanteBanana writes:





On Nov 22, 12:23*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Peter Clinch writes:


Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes..


Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
cyclists. *Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.


They will behave as they previously desired & expected
cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
been humbled.


It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
been humbled at all.


It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
the world.

Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.


You just love to scare riders off the roads.
That's your goal, your objective.
Matthew 7:16

But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that


* * * ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sometimes you're almost funny.

perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
who terrorize cyclists.
So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
predatory drivers?


Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.

But keep trying. *You no doubt will, anyway.

http://bicyclesafe.com/http://www.do...fety/index.htm


Just tell me who are you in the jungle, SHEEP following the alpha-male
wolf, or hyena working for the lion?

I'm addressing the whole POLITICAL JUNGLE AS AN ECOSYSTEM OF HIERARCHY
AND LIES. SUVs are good here, bikes are not. Just the reverse of a
good moral stand.

If you are a cyclist in the capitalist jungle, you are dead meat. And
don't want to feed the vultures.



  #148  
Old November 24th 08, 03:59 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 23, 4:20*pm, Peter Clinch wrote:
ComandanteBanana wrote:
I see, a definite connection. You live in Colombia, you need gated
communities, you live in the UK or Europe, you don't, and you live in
America, it's kind of in-between. *In other words, the more civilized
the society is, the less need for gated communities. Never saw any in
Oslo or Canary Islands.


I find it hard to believe that anyone can be dumb enough to think
all of the US, or all of Britain, or all of Columbia, or all of any
country on the planet, is equally safe everywhere within its
borders. *But you go ahead and prove me wrong.

You don't listen, so time to stop pretending you might. *Bye.


Nothing is Black and White, it's a matter of degree, where Scandinavia/
Holland is at the top of civilization (a 9 to make room for
improvement), Haiti is down to 0, Colombia is a 3 (believe it or not
they have great initiatives for bike facilities that are working) and
America is a 5. The UK I think gets a passing grade with a 7. Your BBC
documentaries about the jungle have taught me invaluable lessons as
well as Darwin and Orwell. Why you insist on defending the status quo
that only places our species on the most-endangered species? How can
you defend a system that denies my right to ride a bike in safety so I
can help Peace and the Environment?

I better stop talking before I lower the ratings given above.







  #149  
Old November 24th 08, 04:01 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default I am convinced bicycling is not safe

On Nov 23, 7:30*pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Tom Keats" wrote in message

...





In article
,
ComandanteBanana writes:
On Nov 22, 12:23 am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
Peter Clinch writes:


Though I suspect the most important driver of changing attitudes
will be the price if fuel going up, as that puts more peple on bikes.


Drivers taking to bikes doesn't necessarily change attitudes.
I think a lot of sidewalk riders are erstwhile drivers who
used to yell: "Get on the [expletive] sidewalk" at adjacent
cyclists. Drivers freshly upon bicycles will bring drivers'
attitudes, P'sOV and styles to bear.


They will behave as they previously desired & expected
cyclists to behave, thinking they're doing the right things.
It'll take them a while for them to realize they've
been humbled.


It'll take a while longer for them to realize they haven't
been humbled at all.


It'll take even longer for them to realize that while they
haven't be humbled, they haven't necessarily been exalted --
they're just people among many, on the streets & roads of
the world.
Either you are very DEEP, or you don't make sense at all. OK, I'll
give you the benefit of the doubt, but what makes people ride
sidewalks is how deadly roads are --or how they are perceived to be.


You just love to scare riders off the roads.
That's your goal, your objective.
Matthew 7:16


But PERCEPTION IS REALITY, and nobody's doing a thing to change that

* * *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Sometimes you're almost funny.


perception, nor are the authorities cracking down on reckless drivers
who terrorize cyclists.
So what do you expect, cyclists to be stupid enough to ride among
predatory drivers?


Your propaganda rhetoric is so ridiculously over the top.


But keep trying. *You no doubt will, anyway.


http://bicyclesafe.com/
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/safety.htm
http://bccc.bc.ca/bikesafety/index.htm


Actually, it is very dangerous to ride a bicycle in Florida. The roads are
narrow and crowded and high speed with no shoulders. It is the perfect storm
for getting yourself killed.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Thanks! And this THE model for Latin America, which in turn, becomes
the place for more gated communities. Or they steal the money from
there and invest it here, in relative safety.

  #150  
Old November 24th 08, 05:00 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,uk.rec.cycling
KingOfTheApes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,468
Default A March on Washington... on Bicycle?

(letter from Europe)

Originally Posted by cyclezealot
Generally I agree with you. On the continent , you don't need gated
communities... The UK, not so sure...?... There must be a reason all
the UK people are retiring tn the continent... Besides, climate and
cost of living , that is... We are presently in the US.. Mich and
Calif... Going to your favorite sports bar and hearing of armed
invasions.. Disrupts your appetite... Gun sales up 2 and 3 times their
normal rate. Can't say but some business' are not booming in the
US...
Other disadvantages.. Mass transit.. Found out in Mich you can't get
to Detroit or Canada , by taking the train or bus and return on the
same day.. Don't know if I could hack that. We are used to taking mass
transit, when ever, where ever we want... Even from one small burg to
another small burg.../.. But, should you be able to live inside gated
communities in the lap of luxury , and don't turn on television.. It's
a nice life..../ Another advantage of driving in the EU over Driving
in the US.. There is much less need to take a load of CD's to keep you
entertained on the autoroutes... On EU radio, you have everything from
classic to US alternative pop... Regulated radio offers so much more
variety, over the crap we hear on US radio...

***

Thanks for that great feedback! Yeah, we shouldn't underplay the role
of a good Media in moving up the civilization scale. So is Public
Transportation, Public Safety (no need for Gated Communities) and Bike
Facilities.

I quote from my website...

'TV and radio should be independent of Big Business and the State.
(This is due to two reasons: culturally, because the ratings make bad
programs become "good"... for business; and, politically, because
whoever has power over the media... will be in power; however, people
should be able to watch anything on video and cable; the BBC offers us
and example of an independent media.)'
 




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