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Dog & Bike Stories Wanted



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 14th 09, 08:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 371
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash.
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
Anyone have a story they'd like to share?

Thanks!
Bill


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  #2  
Old November 14th 09, 01:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

On 14 Nov, 07:26, wrote:
* *I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. *A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash. *
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
* *So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
* *Anyone have a story they'd like to share?

Thanks!
Bill


I have known two people to have taken headers and died because of dogs
darting in front of them. This is a serious issue, dogs should be
kept under control. In UK only working dogs are permitted with
general access to public roads without collar and leash. You can take
a non-working dog onto the roads without a leash, but it must still be
kept under control. I think that failure to control an animal is seen
as a criminal offence. This would make any collision with a non-
working animal clearly the full responsibility of the animals owner.
No deductions would be placed at court for contributary negligence by
the cyclist. It would obviously be worthwhile in expressing the speed
of the dog when in court.

You should not enter into discussion with the insurer as to laying
blame, it forewarns them of your possible approach in court after
talks break down. The owner is fully responsible because he failed
to control his animal. You took evasive action to preserve your own
life. The crash was minor compared to striking a dog st speed.

Last year? Go to court. Present their refusals. Claim for
frustration, costs incurred with dealing with the claiim and intrest
as well.
  #3  
Old November 14th 09, 09:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Norman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 457
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

On Nov 14, 2:26*am, wrote:
* *I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. *A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash. *
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
* *So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
* *Anyone have a story they'd like to share?


Dogs, as predators, are hardwired to chase fast-
moving things. This instinct is very useful when
subsumed into herding behaviour, and very dif-
ficult to overcome when mounted on a bicycle,
because if the dog sees that you are not attacking
him, he is compelled to pursue. The only fool-
proof method that I know of (having tried water,
shouting "no", etc etc) is 280 grains of plumbum
applied carefully to the skull of the animal in
question. Applicators do vary, so be familiar
with the one you choose, & remember that the
irate owner may inadvertently request that a
similar application be applied to him. Make
sure you have a good excuse.
  #4  
Old November 14th 09, 11:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Dragons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

Carry a bang stick.


In article
,
thirty-six wrote:

On 14 Nov, 07:26, wrote:
* *I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. *A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash. *
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
* *So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
* *Anyone have a story they'd like to share?

Thanks!
Bill


I have known two people to have taken headers and died because of dogs
darting in front of them. This is a serious issue, dogs should be
kept under control. In UK only working dogs are permitted with
general access to public roads without collar and leash. You can take
a non-working dog onto the roads without a leash, but it must still be
kept under control. I think that failure to control an animal is seen
as a criminal offence. This would make any collision with a non-
working animal clearly the full responsibility of the animals owner.
No deductions would be placed at court for contributary negligence by
the cyclist. It would obviously be worthwhile in expressing the speed
of the dog when in court.

You should not enter into discussion with the insurer as to laying
blame, it forewarns them of your possible approach in court after
talks break down. The owner is fully responsible because he failed
to control his animal. You took evasive action to preserve your own
life. The crash was minor compared to striking a dog st speed.

Last year? Go to court. Present their refusals. Claim for
frustration, costs incurred with dealing with the claiim and intrest
as well.

  #5  
Old November 15th 09, 01:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 371
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

Norman wrote:
On Nov 14, 2:26*am, wrote:
* *I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. *A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash. *
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
* *So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
* *Anyone have a story they'd like to share?


Dogs, as predators, are hardwired to chase fast-
moving things. This instinct is very useful when
subsumed into herding behaviour, and very dif-
ficult to overcome when mounted on a bicycle,
because if the dog sees that you are not attacking
him, he is compelled to pursue. The only fool-
proof method that I know of (having tried water,
shouting "no", etc etc) is 280 grains of plumbum
applied carefully to the skull of the animal in
question. Applicators do vary, so be familiar
with the one you choose, & remember that the
irate owner may inadvertently request that a
similar application be applied to him. Make
sure you have a good excuse.


I appreciate the advice to seek legal redress in this case. I have
retained a prominent local legal firm that specializes in accident
cases. The case is still in the negotiating phase, and I'm not
particularly eager to see it go all the way to court. I have little
doubt that I'd win, but court can take a LONG time.
My OP was motivated by a letter from the dog owner's insurance
company that my attorney copied to me. I have already written back
pointing out how the dog owner's claims violate everything from common
sense to the laws of physics. (It's clear that neither the insurance
person nor the dog owner knows anything significant about riding a
bike.) I also mentioned the canine predatory instinct. I also pointed
out that the dog should not have been out there unleashed, period. And
I said that it seems an odd coincidence that I have ridden that route
literally 1000 times before without a problem, but suddenly would
coincidentally crash just when the dog happened to be there.
Clearly the dog owner is liable. In fact, since he's insured I don't
know why he feels motivated to try and stonewall like this. What I'm
looking for is anecdotes like thirty-six's about other, preferably
experienced, cyclists, who have been injured because of an unrestrained
dog's persuit/harassment/attack behavior.
My thanks for all the responses so far. Anybody else got something
to chip in? If nothing else, I'd happy to tally up some votes about my
speed. Is 15 mph too fast to keep a bike under control? (I know, I
know, but I'm asking for YOUR opinions.)


Bill


__o | Roads aren't for cars. They're for people.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |
  #6  
Old November 15th 09, 06:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Pat[_18_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

Norman wrote:
Dogs, as predators, are hardwired to chase fast-
moving things. This instinct is very useful when
subsumed into herding behaviour, and very dif-
ficult to overcome when mounted on a bicycle,
because if the dog sees that you are not attacking
him, he is compelled to pursue. The only fool-
proof method that I know of (having tried water,
shouting "no", etc etc) is 280 grains of plumbum
applied carefully to the skull of the animal in
question. Applicators do vary, so be familiar
with the one you choose, & remember that the
irate owner may inadvertently request that a
similar application be applied to him. Make
sure you have a good excuse.


Sorry, but my experience is different from yours. You seem to be saying that
nothing can be done about dogs vis a vis chasing bicyclists. I lived and
rode a bike in Germany for 8 years and was never once chased by a dog. My
own dog showed no prediliction to chase after cyclists, either. Why? I
trained her to be disciplined and not to chase. I trained her to know when
to chase something and when not to chase. The problem here is not "dogs will
be dogs, they can't help it" but the lack of responsibility on the dog's
owners. Ergo, the owner is totally at fault in a legal situation.

Pat


  #7  
Old November 15th 09, 08:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

On Nov 13, 11:26 pm, wrote:
I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash.
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
Anyone have a story they'd like to share?


Friday morning, as dawn approached in a light cold rain, I went past
one of those Rottweiller-type dogs. He was standing on the edge of
the road, and I only saw him (and him me at the same instant) a
fraction of a second before passing within what seemed like a couple
of feet. He was about the size of the Hound of Baskerville. I was so
startled I didn't even have time to say, "Hi, pooch", but instead
yelped some scared little exclamation and started pushing the pedals.

I was already in second-from-the-top gear, but got some good
acceleration. I could hear him coming after me, but apparently I got
a good enough jump and he was a "good dog", 'cause I got away.

(I typically greet barking dogs with, "Hi, pooch", because it seems to
immediately inform them that I'm a man, FWIW, not a gazelle or
something.)

Another time one of those big dogs came after me and was really
closing the gap, when a couple of cars came along from both directions
and I got away.

Another time a dog ran out into the road after me and I watched over
my shoulder as he bounced off the bumper of a car going the other way.
  #8  
Old November 16th 09, 05:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 371
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

Pat wrote:

Sorry, but my experience is different from yours. You seem to be saying that
nothing can be done about dogs vis a vis chasing bicyclists. I lived and
rode a bike in Germany for 8 years and was never once chased by a dog. My
own dog showed no prediliction to chase after cyclists, either. Why? I
trained her to be disciplined and not to chase. I trained her to know when
to chase something and when not to chase. The problem here is not "dogs will
be dogs, they can't help it" but the lack of responsibility on the dog's
owners. Ergo, the owner is totally at fault in a legal situation.


Would that it were so in this country. Around here about two months
back, a little boy got his face nearly ripped off by a pit bull. The
dog owner stoutly insists that the kid provoked the dog.
And the owner of the dog that ran in front of me insists that my fall
was my fault.


Bill


__o |
_`\(,_ | Subvert the fuel-based-transportation paradigm!
(_)/ (_) |

  #9  
Old November 16th 09, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Norman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 457
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

On Nov 15, 12:20*pm, "Pat" wrote:
Norman wrote:
Dogs, as predators, are hardwired to chase fast-
moving things. *This instinct is very useful when
subsumed into herding behaviour, and very dif-
ficult to overcome when mounted on a bicycle,
because if the dog sees that you are not attacking
him, he is compelled to pursue. *The only fool-
proof method that I know of (having tried water,
shouting "no", etc etc) is 280 grains of plumbum
applied carefully to the skull of the animal in
question. *Applicators do vary, so be familiar
with the one you choose, & remember that the
irate owner may inadvertently request that a
similar application be applied to him. *Make
sure you have a good excuse.


Sorry, but my experience is different from yours. You seem to be saying that
nothing can be done about dogs vis a vis chasing bicyclists. I lived and
rode a bike in Germany for 8 years and was never once chased by a dog. My
own dog showed no prediliction to chase after cyclists, either. Why? I
trained her to be disciplined and not to chase. *I trained her to know when
to chase something and when not to chase. The problem here is not "dogs will
be dogs, they can't help it" but the lack of responsibility on the dog's
owners. Ergo, the owner is totally at fault in a legal situation.


It's a pretty story, but a well trained dog is a well
trained dog. Once the dog is chasing you, you
ought to realise that you are not dealing with a
well trained dog. Whether or not you can force
the owner to accept responsibility is subservient
to (A) nullifying the immediate problem, (B) locating
the owner, if such exists, & (C) nullifying the owner,
if there are no witnesses.
  #10  
Old November 16th 09, 09:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default Dog & Bike Stories Wanted

On 15 Nov, 00:17, wrote:
Norman wrote:
On Nov 14, 2:26*am, wrote:
* *I continue to try to recoup damages for dog/bike accident I was in
last year. *A dog ran in front of me, causing me to swerve and crash. *
But the dog owner's insurance people are laying the blame on me,
claiming that I was riding too fast (I was doing about 15 mph), lost
control even though the dog was thirty feet away from me, fishtailed for
sixty feet (really, that's what they're saying!), and finally went down.
* *So I thought I'd solicit the experiences of others here who may have
had run-ins with dogs, which might have caused a crash or injury, or in
which you were able to avoid the dog.
* *Anyone have a story they'd like to share?

Dogs, as predators, are hardwired to chase fast-
moving things. *This instinct is very useful when
subsumed into herding behaviour, and very dif-
ficult to overcome when mounted on a bicycle,
because if the dog sees that you are not attacking
him, he is compelled to pursue. *The only fool-
proof method that I know of (having tried water,
shouting "no", etc etc) is 280 grains of plumbum
applied carefully to the skull of the animal in
question. *Applicators do vary, so be familiar
with the one you choose, & remember that the
irate owner may inadvertently request that a
similar application be applied to him. *Make
sure you have a good excuse.


* *I appreciate the advice to seek legal redress in this case. *I have
retained a prominent local legal firm that specializes in accident
cases. *The case is still in the negotiating phase, and I'm not
particularly eager to see it go all the way to court. *I have little
doubt that I'd win, but court can take a LONG time.
* *My OP was motivated by a letter from the dog owner's insurance
company that my attorney copied to me. *I have already written back
pointing out how the dog owner's claims violate everything from common
sense to the laws of physics. *(It's clear that neither the insurance
person nor the dog owner knows anything significant about riding a
bike.) *I also mentioned the canine predatory instinct. *I also pointed
out that the dog should not have been out there unleashed, period. *And
I said that it seems an odd coincidence that I have ridden that route
literally 1000 times before without a problem, but suddenly would
coincidentally crash just when the dog happened to be there.
* *Clearly the dog owner is liable. *In fact, since he's insured I don't
know why he feels motivated to try and stonewall like this. *What I'm
looking for is anecdotes like thirty-six's about other, preferably
experienced, cyclists, who have been injured because of an unrestrained
dog's persuit/harassment/attack behavior.
* *My thanks for all the responses so far. *Anybody else got something
to chip in? *If nothing else, I'd happy to tally up some votes about my
speed. *Is 15 mph too fast to keep a bike under control? *(I know, I
know, but I'm asking for YOUR opinions.)



Only if you're not using studded tyres on black ice, and there's a
wind blowing, and your trying to get a new car battery home by
balancing it on the handlebars. That may cause a less experienced
cyclist to lose control or fall. Yes, the only reason you would lose
control is if the wheels were unstable, you were carrying a heavy load
and travelling too quickly. Actually there's no such thing as to
quickly on a bicycle, it the environment that's wrong. Oh, like
stray dogs. For you to suddenly lose control at 'speed' the bike
would have to be defecvtive in some way. Could be useful to get a
report in the days following the incident, you have kept copies of
performed maintenance history which can be presented in court, and
would be so much the better if authorised by an acknowledged mechanic./
technician/engineer etc.

15mph may be a bit quick for a child's bike but I seem to recalllthat
Raleigh tested their childrens bikes for stability using a speed test
which accelerated the bike up to 40mph. Adult bikes should be stable
at all speeds, unfortunately not all are and it is possibly that this
is the angle of attack. No way at all should a bike be unstable at
15mph and if it was you would hve rejected it as being unsuitable.
Stability is also affected by load, so if you were carrying more than
a packet of cornflakes someone may attempt to claim you were
overloaded. It is certainly possible to lose control of a bicycle at
15mph if it was overloaded and on rough ground but extremely
unlikely.

15mph - too fast? It's the stopping that hurts, not the speed. Make
it 45mph and I'm happy. 15mph is slow.
 




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