I broke my second spoke tonight - and a tire question.

I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke. So I rode on at reduced speed
until I got to a bike store (Cuevas it turns out) and they fixed it.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:31:37 GMT, dgk
wrote:

I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke. So I rode on at reduced speed
until I got to a bike store (Cuevas it turns out) and they fixed it.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

It's not right, but if "normal" means most bikes come this way...

Anyhow, you might want to start thinking about rebuilding the wheel.
After two or three break, the rest are likely to start. Either find a
shop to replace the for you, making sure you find a wheelbuilder who
knows how to tension the spokes correctly; or measure the spokes and
buy replacements and a copy of "The Bicycle Wheel," and build your
own. It's probably worth buying or borrowing a copy of the book
anyhow to check the wheel, since not everyone who can true a wheel can
or will also tension it.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

Sure, buy new tires if you need them. Do they have lots of cuts,
broken sidewalls, or threads showing through? If not, you probably
don't need new tires. If the tubes hold air, they don't need
replacement either.

Pat

Email address works as is.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:31:37 GMT, dgk
wrote:

I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke.

Machine built wheels, I'm guessing.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

The only upgrade you should need is to have the wheels retensioned and
stress relieved by a proper wheel builder. Costs about an hour's
labour and normally that is the end of the problem. I have had one
broken spoke in 25 years, and that on a recumbent where the spoke
tensions and angles are difficult. I've never broken a spoke on a
26"/700c/27" bike, because I've always ridden on handbuilt wheels.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

Only if they are worn out!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"dgk" wrote in message
...
I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke. So I rode on at reduced speed
until I got to a bike store (Cuevas it turns out) and they fixed it.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

Before you do that, try stress relieving the current wheels. Read about it
at Sheldon Brown's site and the bicycle FAQ. If you really want to know
about it in depth, read Jobst's book. It doesn't take long to do, you may
need to touch up the trueing a bit afterwards, but that's not hard either.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

If the tread is nearly gone. Rear tires wear out much faster, so move the
front tire to the back & put the new one on the front. Self-sealing tires
are generally more trouble than they're worth, and have a built-in hazard
in that a blowout can turn them into banana peels. If weather is bad enough
that fixing a flat could be a problem in winter, a treaded tire might be
better, especially if you also have to deal with snow.

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:11:31 -0600, Patrick Lamb
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:31:37 GMT, dgk
wrote:

I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke. So I rode on at reduced speed
until I got to a bike store (Cuevas it turns out) and they fixed it.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

It's not right, but if "normal" means most bikes come this way...

Anyhow, you might want to start thinking about rebuilding the wheel.
After two or three break, the rest are likely to start. Either find a
shop to replace the for you, making sure you find a wheelbuilder who
knows how to tension the spokes correctly; or measure the spokes and
buy replacements and a copy of "The Bicycle Wheel," and build your
own. It's probably worth buying or borrowing a copy of the book
anyhow to check the wheel, since not everyone who can true a wheel can
or will also tension it.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

Sure, buy new tires if you need them. Do they have lots of cuts,
broken sidewalls, or threads showing through? If not, you probably
don't need new tires. If the tubes hold air, they don't need
replacement either.

Pat

Nope, no real visible damage. I don't know how many miles a tire is
good for though and I don't want to run it down to the point where a
flat becomes likely. Having read this thread and google on the
subject, it seems that the preferred idea is to move the front to the
rear and put a new one on the front. I'll give a real good look at the
rear tire and see if it needs to be replaced.

It's funny though. I got a flat on the third day riding this bike. I
was not pleased. I've only had one other since then. Both on the rear.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:32:23 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:31:37 GMT, dgk
wrote:

I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke.

Machine built wheels, I'm guessing.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

The only upgrade you should need is to have the wheels retensioned and
stress relieved by a proper wheel builder. Costs about an hour's
labour and normally that is the end of the problem. I have had one
broken spoke in 25 years, and that on a recumbent where the spoke
tensions and angles are difficult. I've never broken a spoke on a
26"/700c/27" bike, because I've always ridden on handbuilt wheels.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

Only if they are worn out!

Guy

I'll see if I can find someone to do the tension and stress relief. I
liked the shop that I found yesterday. It is only three blocks off my
normal commute and the founder (Francisco Cuevas) was apparently
something of a legend among frame builders. It's now run by a
grandchild.

The shop seemed mostly geared towards serious road bikes although they
have a few mountain bikes. No hybrids like mine were visible. They
don't appear to do much selling of bikes but were more of a repair
shop. Very useful to find a place that is open till 7 PM on a weekday
in November. I think I'll ask them about redoing the wheel.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 13:17:59 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote:

"dgk" wrote in message
.. .
I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke. So I rode on at reduced speed
until I got to a bike store (Cuevas it turns out) and they fixed it.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

Before you do that, try stress relieving the current wheels. Read about it
at Sheldon Brown's site and the bicycle FAQ. If you really want to know
about it in depth, read Jobst's book. It doesn't take long to do, you may
need to touch up the trueing a bit afterwards, but that's not hard either.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

If the tread is nearly gone. Rear tires wear out much faster, so move the
front tire to the back & put the new one on the front. Self-sealing tires
are generally more trouble than they're worth, and have a built-in hazard
in that a blowout can turn them into banana peels. If weather is bad enough
that fixing a flat could be a problem in winter, a treaded tire might be
better, especially if you also have to deal with snow.


Thanks. I will likely just turn the wheel over to the Cuevas LBS since
they must be pretty good at it. Now to figure out what new tire to
order for the front.

In article ,
dgk wrote:
But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal?

Yes. Spokes that aren't stress-relieved and properly seated break from
fatigue. Machine built wheels usually don't leave the shop in that state.

It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

Your spoke failure is an assembly problem not materials. Stress
relieving spokes by squeezing parallel pairs together or (my favorite)
twisting them (Sheldon Brown uses an old crank, I use a big brass
drift) arround each other does this.

Also, the tires now have 1500 miles. Would it be a good idea to get
new tires and tubes for the winter? Maybe the self-sealing type?

The tires are probably still good. On icy/snowy days I like knobby tires
(road bike with cyclo-cross tires) otherwise slicks work better. You
might change because of that, otherwise the tires are probably still
good. The tubes are still good.

--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
Life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:32:23 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:31:37 GMT, dgk
wrote:

I was biking home from work and noticed that the rear wheel felt a bit
funny. I looked down to see if it was flat but instead it was wobbling
a bit. Sure enough, a broken spoke.

Machine built wheels, I'm guessing.

But that is annoying and is the second one in six months/1500 miles.
Is this normal? It is a fairly cheap Trek ($300) so I don't expect top
quality parts but maybe I should upgrade the wheels?

The only upgrade you should need is to have the wheels retensioned and
stress relieved by a proper wheel builder. Costs about an hour's
labour and normally that is the end of the problem. I have had one
broken spoke in 25 years, and that on a recumbent where the spoke
tensions and angles are difficult. I've never broken a spoke on a
26"/700c/27" bike, because I've always ridden on handbuilt wheels.

After 1500 miles, is retensioning and stress relief going to work?
Based on my experience, once a couple break, there's more getting
ready to break in the next few hundred miles. I suspect many of the
spokes (probably on the drive side) have initiated cracks;
retensioning and stress relief will prevent more cracks from
initiating, but the cracks (or microcracks, if you will) that are
already there will continue to propagate until the spokes break.

Pat

Email address works as is.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:42:47 -0600, Patrick Lamb
wrote:

After 1500 miles, is retensioning and stress relief going to work?
Based on my experience, once a couple break, there's more getting
ready to break in the next few hundred miles. I suspect many of the
spokes (probably on the drive side) have initiated cracks;
retensioning and stress relief will prevent more cracks from
initiating, but the cracks (or microcracks, if you will) that are
already there will continue to propagate until the spokes break.

Hard to say. Spokes are cheap, I guess, so maybe you could ask: why
run the risk? But I've had random second-hand bike wheels done, and
not had any problems. No idea what mileage they might have had, of
course.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University