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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 13th 10, 09:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and
motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower.
Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack
overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of
giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes
around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and
the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the
road.

I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the
really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders
out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower
folk should get off the friggin road)?

Thanks-

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

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  #2  
Old September 13th 10, 10:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Magilla Gorilla[_2_]
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Posts: 514
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders



Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and
motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower.
Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack
overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of
giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes
around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and
the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the
road.

I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the
really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders
out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower
folk should get off the friggin road)?

Thanks-

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


A little dischord is always a good thing for cycling. What you need is a few
lawsuits and a fight every now and then if you really want it to be
professional.

Tell the slower guys to take some EPO and then go to the front and ram the
goddamn pedals.

Thanks,

Magilla

  #3  
Old September 13th 10, 10:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

"Brad Anders" wrote in message
...
On Sep 13, 1:04 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and
motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower.
Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving
pack
overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job
of
giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes
around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost,
and
the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off
the
road.

I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's
the
really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders
out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that
slower
folk should get off the friggin road)?

Thanks-

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


=======
Your group rides are too big, which is a problem that's gone on for
years in the Bay Area. You've got the solution in your email - break
all group rides into sets of 25 riders or less, and get a person to
"own" each set. IMO, even 25 is too large in many cases.

Brad Anders
=======

Brad: I agree. My Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride is a group of 4-12 people,
and works out fine. But for these larger rides, people see them as an
opportunity to "race" and it gets pretty wild. The more the merrier is the
way they look at it, because it comes closer to real racing conditions. On
open roads, unfortunately.

It's difficult because some of these rides are "leaderless", traditional
rides that have gone on since the 70s in some cases. Who in their right mind
would want to take responsibility for a ride like that, with 25-75 people in
it, from no club in particular?

Even for my own ride we sometimes have issues for the final sprint, a
slightly-twisty descent then climb that sometimes will be populated with
joggers or people with kids in strollers, such that it can resemble the
scene from Battleship Potemkin. When I see that I call it off rather than
try and thread my way through. Testosterone is tough to overcome though,
when you see that opening that you know you can get through.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

  #4  
Old September 13th 10, 11:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Kurgan Gringioni[_2_]
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Posts: 278
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders


"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
news

: Any ride leaders
: out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that
slower
: folk should get off the friggin road)?



Dumbass -

My solution is: run the slower riders off the road.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

  #5  
Old September 14th 10, 12:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
...

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
news

: Any ride leaders
: out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that
slower
: folk should get off the friggin road)?



Dumbass -

My solution is: run the slower riders off the road.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.



The worst is when you don't succeed at running them off the road, and they
seize the opportunity to draft off you and you can't shake 'em loose.
Happened to me twice yesterday, and each guy must have hung on for at least
5 miles (or it should seemed like it was 5 miles anyway). Not normally what
happens. So a bit later I'm climbing Redwood Gulch, a nasty piece of
climbing, and very slowly reel in this guy out in front of me. And then it
happens again!!! The guy claws his way back up to me, obviously without any
help of a draft (15%+ grade at that point, and I'm sure as heck not going
fast enough to create a draft). When it finally eases off, the guy tells me
he was beat but then, after I passed, he saw the "Never give up, Never
surrender" written across my jersey pockets, and that inspired him.

The last thing I want is to inspire more people to beat up on me. Maybe I
need a demotivational slogan back there.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

  #6  
Old September 14th 10, 01:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
DirtRoadie
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Posts: 2,915
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

On Sep 13, 2:04*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and
motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower.
Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack
overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of
giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes
around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and
the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the
road.

I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the
really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders
out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower
folk should get off the friggin road)?


Aside from the aspect of courtesy for the slower riders, there is just
the general issue of safety. Under a nearly identical scenario I was
part of group (~20) that was flying along on a rural road on "trash
pickup" day where an occasional unretrieved wheeled trash bin still
graced the shoulder (or what amounted to a shoulder) in the evening.
At one point the group came upon one of these and the front of the
group easily avoided it (and there may have been some verbal
communication). I was perhaps mid-pack and had no clue what was
coming. I was lucky to merely get the startling "whoosh" as I cleared
the bin bu a foot or so. But I knew exactly what would happen next and
it did - a single loud thud followed by all sorts of nasty sounds of
metal and carbon, bodies and pavement. Three riders were quite badly
hurt, bikes essentially destroyed.

I don't have an answer to the problem aside from noting that smaller
groups are a plus and having a group that where everyone rides
together regularly and knows one another usually makes for better
cohesiveness and communication. Even if they can't be excluded, it can
be helpful to know who the flaky riders and/or the idiosyncrasies of
even the good riders. "Good" in this case meaning well behaved.

There's nothing much better than a good group ride, or much worse than
a bad one. What are good and bad? Not always readily definable, but
you know them when they happen.

DR
  #7  
Old September 14th 10, 01:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Fredmaster of Brainerd
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Posts: 620
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

On Sep 13, 1:04*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and
motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower.
Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack
overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of
giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes
around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and
the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the
road.

I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the
really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders
out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower
folk should get off the friggin road)?


A ride that big should start early enough and ride on roads
empty enough that road hazards - slower riders, parked cars,
garbage bins as DR mentioned, cross traffic, and so on -
are virtually non existent.

This becomes harder and harder to do as creeping
suburbanization overtakes everything and rides also
get too big for their own good. I suspect it's essentially
impossible in most Bay Area ride routes at this point,
at least on the interior side of the mountains (for ex,
on the northeast side of the Santa Cruz mountains).

The other thing is that a giant pack at moderately high
speed is both a pain in the ass and not much training
value. The Santa Cruz Saturday ride, which is the only
really huge training ride I ever went on, had the advantages
of going through near-farmland (since it was farther from
the dense Bay Area) and also alternating between
fairly mellow and hard-enough-to-splinter. That keeps
the pack a little safer.

Fredmaster Ben
  #8  
Old September 14th 10, 02:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
JQ
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Posts: 25
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

On 9/13/2010 4:04 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

The group/rider leader needs to make it clear at the beginning of a ride
to give room to the slower rider and for the group to announce from
front to rear slow rider on right. This way all riders know to give
room just as when there is no more shoulder so all riders know to move over.
Ride fast, ride hard, ride for health and enjoyment...
JQ
Dancing on the edge
  #9  
Old September 14th 10, 03:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ben Trovato
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Posts: 185
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

A little dischord is always a good thing for cycling. *What you need is a few
lawsuits and a fight every now and then if you really want it to be
professional.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/gra.../photos/140302
  #10  
Old September 14th 10, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Claus Assmann
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Posts: 64
Default Group etiquette overtaking slower riders

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

The last thing I want is to inspire more people to beat up on me. Maybe I


Why? It makes you go faster, doesn't it?

I always hope for someone who can ride at least as fast (however
slow that might be) as I am, because that's rather motivating to
keep up with or drop that person.
 




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