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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and
motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower. Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the road. I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower folk should get off the friggin road)? Thanks- --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA |
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#2
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower. Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the road. I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower folk should get off the friggin road)? Thanks- --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA A little dischord is always a good thing for cycling. What you need is a few lawsuits and a fight every now and then if you really want it to be professional. Tell the slower guys to take some EPO and then go to the front and ram the goddamn pedals. Thanks, Magilla |
#3
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
"Brad Anders" wrote in message
... On Sep 13, 1:04 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower. Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the road. I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower folk should get off the friggin road)? Thanks- --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA ======= Your group rides are too big, which is a problem that's gone on for years in the Bay Area. You've got the solution in your email - break all group rides into sets of 25 riders or less, and get a person to "own" each set. IMO, even 25 is too large in many cases. Brad Anders ======= Brad: I agree. My Tuesday/Thursday-morning ride is a group of 4-12 people, and works out fine. But for these larger rides, people see them as an opportunity to "race" and it gets pretty wild. The more the merrier is the way they look at it, because it comes closer to real racing conditions. On open roads, unfortunately. It's difficult because some of these rides are "leaderless", traditional rides that have gone on since the 70s in some cases. Who in their right mind would want to take responsibility for a ride like that, with 25-75 people in it, from no club in particular? Even for my own ride we sometimes have issues for the final sprint, a slightly-twisty descent then climb that sometimes will be populated with joggers or people with kids in strollers, such that it can resemble the scene from Battleship Potemkin. When I see that I call it off rather than try and thread my way through. Testosterone is tough to overcome though, when you see that opening that you know you can get through. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA |
#4
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message news : Any ride leaders : out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower : folk should get off the friggin road)? Dumbass - My solution is: run the slower riders off the road. thanks, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. |
#5
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
"Kurgan Gringioni" wrote in message
... "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message news : Any ride leaders : out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower : folk should get off the friggin road)? Dumbass - My solution is: run the slower riders off the road. thanks, Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. The worst is when you don't succeed at running them off the road, and they seize the opportunity to draft off you and you can't shake 'em loose. Happened to me twice yesterday, and each guy must have hung on for at least 5 miles (or it should seemed like it was 5 miles anyway). Not normally what happens. So a bit later I'm climbing Redwood Gulch, a nasty piece of climbing, and very slowly reel in this guy out in front of me. And then it happens again!!! The guy claws his way back up to me, obviously without any help of a draft (15%+ grade at that point, and I'm sure as heck not going fast enough to create a draft). When it finally eases off, the guy tells me he was beat but then, after I passed, he saw the "Never give up, Never surrender" written across my jersey pockets, and that inspired him. The last thing I want is to inspire more people to beat up on me. Maybe I need a demotivational slogan back there. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA |
#6
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
On Sep 13, 2:04*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote: We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower. Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the road. I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower folk should get off the friggin road)? Aside from the aspect of courtesy for the slower riders, there is just the general issue of safety. Under a nearly identical scenario I was part of group (~20) that was flying along on a rural road on "trash pickup" day where an occasional unretrieved wheeled trash bin still graced the shoulder (or what amounted to a shoulder) in the evening. At one point the group came upon one of these and the front of the group easily avoided it (and there may have been some verbal communication). I was perhaps mid-pack and had no clue what was coming. I was lucky to merely get the startling "whoosh" as I cleared the bin bu a foot or so. But I knew exactly what would happen next and it did - a single loud thud followed by all sorts of nasty sounds of metal and carbon, bodies and pavement. Three riders were quite badly hurt, bikes essentially destroyed. I don't have an answer to the problem aside from noting that smaller groups are a plus and having a group that where everyone rides together regularly and knows one another usually makes for better cohesiveness and communication. Even if they can't be excluded, it can be helpful to know who the flaky riders and/or the idiosyncrasies of even the good riders. "Good" in this case meaning well behaved. There's nothing much better than a good group ride, or much worse than a bad one. What are good and bad? Not always readily definable, but you know them when they happen. DR |
#7
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
On Sep 13, 1:04*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote: We're seeing an increase in animosity between cyclists and motorists/residents in our area, and now, faster cyclists vs slower. Something that recently came up is that, when a very large fast-moving pack overtakes a slower rider, and the lead part of the pack does a great job of giving the slower folk room, but by the time the rear of the group comes around, the message (hand signals, "rider up", whatever) has been lost, and the slower folk sometimes get clipped or feel like they're being run off the road. I'd guess that a pack of 25 riders or less doesn't have this issue; it's the really large groups where this is more likely to happen. Any ride leaders out there with solutions to this (other than the r.b.r-standard that slower folk should get off the friggin road)? A ride that big should start early enough and ride on roads empty enough that road hazards - slower riders, parked cars, garbage bins as DR mentioned, cross traffic, and so on - are virtually non existent. This becomes harder and harder to do as creeping suburbanization overtakes everything and rides also get too big for their own good. I suspect it's essentially impossible in most Bay Area ride routes at this point, at least on the interior side of the mountains (for ex, on the northeast side of the Santa Cruz mountains). The other thing is that a giant pack at moderately high speed is both a pain in the ass and not much training value. The Santa Cruz Saturday ride, which is the only really huge training ride I ever went on, had the advantages of going through near-farmland (since it was farther from the dense Bay Area) and also alternating between fairly mellow and hard-enough-to-splinter. That keeps the pack a little safer. Fredmaster Ben |
#8
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
On 9/13/2010 4:04 PM, Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA The group/rider leader needs to make it clear at the beginning of a ride to give room to the slower rider and for the group to announce from front to rear slow rider on right. This way all riders know to give room just as when there is no more shoulder so all riders know to move over. Ride fast, ride hard, ride for health and enjoyment... JQ Dancing on the edge |
#9
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
A little dischord is always a good thing for cycling. *What you need is a few
lawsuits and a fight every now and then if you really want it to be professional. http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/gra.../photos/140302 |
#10
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Group etiquette overtaking slower riders
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
The last thing I want is to inspire more people to beat up on me. Maybe I Why? It makes you go faster, doesn't it? I always hope for someone who can ride at least as fast (however slow that might be) as I am, because that's rather motivating to keep up with or drop that person. |
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