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#12
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New Trek Pricing
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 10:09:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that the majority was, or something of that nature. So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done elsewhere. John B. I suspect you are right that the "Made In" statements have some kind of percentage qualifications. But also important is what does "Designed in" mean? Can Trek say it was "Designed in Wisconsin" if some assistant copy boy draws a stick figure bike and sends it over to China with the instructions to build it? The bike was designed in USA I guess. 100% made and all the details were figured out by some Chinese company. But it was 100% designed in Wisconsin I guess. |
#13
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New Trek Pricing
On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 16:55:34 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 10:09:25 PM UTC-5, wrote: There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that the majority was, or something of that nature. So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done elsewhere. John B. I suspect you are right that the "Made In" statements have some kind of percentage qualifications. But also important is what does "Designed in" mean? Can Trek say it was "Designed in Wisconsin" if some assistant copy boy draws a stick figure bike and sends it over to China with the instructions to build it? The bike was designed in USA I guess. 100% made and all the details were figured out by some Chinese company. But it was 100% designed in Wisconsin I guess. My guess is that the USians calculate the strength, size, etc., of the various tubes, angles, positions of various attaching devices, etc. then send it to the makers who come up with the actual lay up details and then a conference between the two. My guess is that, assuming Trek works the same as I know Caterpillar and Cummins do, they have their own quality control people at the manufacturer's instillation who see to it that the design is followed exactly. Cat, for example, tests each batch of outside contractor supplied bolts, that are used in the construction of their equipment. I happen to know this as we had a lot of problems with some so called "Cat" bolts we procured in Singapore - got 'em cheap - and they stretched when we used them :-( -- cheers, John B. |
#14
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New Trek Pricing
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:09:22 +0700, wrote:
There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that the majority was, or something of that nature. "Complying with the Made in USA Standard" https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard Marketers and manufacturers that promote their products as Made in USA must meet the "all or virtually all" standard. Note that this document was scribbled in 1998 and is probably in need of revision. So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done elsewhere. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard Example: A company designs a product in New York City and sends the blueprint to a factory in Finland for manufacturing. It labels the product "Designed in USA - Made in Finland." Such a specific processing claim would not lead a reasonable consumer to believe that the whole product was made in the U.S. The Customs Service requires the product to be marked "Made in," or "Product of" Finland since the product is of Finnish origin and the claim refers to the U.S. Actually this type of design - manufacture process is not uncommon. Caterpillar, for example, manufacturers several types of their equipment in Indonesia, Cummins makes several models of their diesel engines in China, and so on. Both Cat and Cummins give exactly the same guarantee for the Asian made equipment as they do for the U.S. made. I would think that Trek should have labeled their bicycles as "Made in China - Designed in Wisconsin". "Are Trek Bikes Made in the USA"? https://allamericanreviews.com/trek/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#15
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New Trek Pricing
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 17:58:09 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:09:22 +0700, wrote: There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that the majority was, or something of that nature. "Complying with the Made in USA Standard" https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard Marketers and manufacturers that promote their products as Made in USA must meet the "all or virtually all" standard. Note that this document was scribbled in 1998 and is probably in need of revision. So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done elsewhere. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard Example: A company designs a product in New York City and sends the blueprint to a factory in Finland for manufacturing. It labels the product "Designed in USA - Made in Finland." Such a specific processing claim would not lead a reasonable consumer to believe that the whole product was made in the U.S. The Customs Service requires the product to be marked "Made in," or "Product of" Finland since the product is of Finnish origin and the claim refers to the U.S. Actually this type of design - manufacture process is not uncommon. Caterpillar, for example, manufacturers several types of their equipment in Indonesia, Cummins makes several models of their diesel engines in China, and so on. Both Cat and Cummins give exactly the same guarantee for the Asian made equipment as they do for the U.S. made. I would think that Trek should have labeled their bicycles as "Made in China - Designed in Wisconsin". "Are Trek Bikes Made in the USA"? https://allamericanreviews.com/trek/ To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. -- cheers, John B. |
#16
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On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote:
To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products. When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed in Wisconsin" sticker. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#17
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New Trek Pricing
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 21:54:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote: To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products. When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed in Wisconsin" sticker. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point. Yes, that is correct. In fact one of the popular political parties in the recent election here was saying that if they got a majority of the votes they would raise minimum wages by 50%. The Manufacturers Association said that if the government raised wages by 50% that manufacturers would move to Myanmar or Cambodia. It might be noted that Thailand, today, has, essentially, in excess of 100% employment. There are something like 3 million legal foreign workers in the country and probably another 1 - 2 million illegal's. Pay rates, of course, are very dependant on living costs, or perhaps it is the other way round. When I was first married I used to give my wife 500 baht (about US$ 25.00 at the time) a month to run the house, pay the lights and water, etc. Now... I give her about US$775 for the same purpose. But, when we were first married a bowl of noodles in soup, a very common dish, was 2 baht (about US$0.10) and today it is 40 baht - US$1.30. Based on noodles the inflation has been 20 times. As for the term "exploit", it is, from the employee's point of view, manna from heaven. I remember when a Korean firm, contracted to one of the athletic shoe companies, opened a new factory in Indonesia. there was one or two killings in the line waiting for job interviews of people who tried to force their way into the line instead of waiting their turn. Think about that, jobs are so scarce that you could get stabbed simply by trying to cut into the line waiting for job interviews. -- cheers, John B. |
#18
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New Trek Pricing
On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote: To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products. When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed in Wisconsin" sticker. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point. Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X Italy's volume). Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended their order to ship times by a few weeks: https://babe.net/2016/08/25/i-tried-...ar-online-4266 -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#19
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New Trek Pricing
On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote: To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products. When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed in Wisconsin" sticker. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point. Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X Italy's volume). Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended their order to ship times by a few weeks: dammit here's the actual link https://waterfordbikes.com/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#20
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New Trek Pricing
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote: To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products. When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed in Wisconsin" sticker. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point. Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X Italy's volume). Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended their order to ship times by a few weeks: dammit here's the actual link https://waterfordbikes.com/ The other link you posted was also educational on market realities. |
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