A hole in the stem

On 4/13/2019 1:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:


I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or
the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a
mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge
that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the
handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both
bikes with the mechanic.

It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem.

Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front
brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem.

I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible,
horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such
a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves.

So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the
mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if
there were no hole.

I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of
telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why
routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea?

The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when
there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the
area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole.

Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel,
for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not
necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum
hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to
attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the
concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the
long term.

I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots
of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking
hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and
might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem.

More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you
don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress
concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me.

So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it
once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you
want to be paranoid, replace the stem.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem?


I read that as Frank being perplexed that a mechanic would
set up the cable _not_ using the extant hole in the stem,
'silly' meaning the tech not the rider.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:


I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or
the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a
mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge
that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the
handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both
bikes with the mechanic.

It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem.

Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front
brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem.

I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible,
horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such
a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves.

So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the
mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if
there were no hole.

I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of
telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why
routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea?

The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when
there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the
area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole.

Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel,
for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not
necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum
hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to
attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the
concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the
long term.

I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots
of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking
hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and
might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem.

More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you
don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress
concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me.

So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it
once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you
want to be paranoid, replace the stem.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem?

Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves."

If she likes it, she should do it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable?

Cheers

On 4/13/2019 5:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:


I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or
the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a
mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge
that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the
handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both
bikes with the mechanic.

It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem.

Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front
brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem.

I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible,
horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such
a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves.

So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the
mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if
there were no hole.

I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of
telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why
routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea?

The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when
there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the
area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole.

Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel,
for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not
necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum
hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to
attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the
concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the
long term.

I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots
of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking
hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and
might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem.

More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you
don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress
concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me.

So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it
once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you
want to be paranoid, replace the stem.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem?

Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves."

If she likes it, she should do it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable?

Well, "looks better" is individual choice. Severity of the curve would
depend on other details, I suppose.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 5:28:30 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:


I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or
the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a
mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge
that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the
handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both
bikes with the mechanic.

It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem.

Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front
brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem.

I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible,
horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such
a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves.

So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the
mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if
there were no hole.

I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of
telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why
routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea?

The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when
there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the
area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole.

Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel,
for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not
necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum
hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to
attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the
concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the
long term.

I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots
of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking
hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and
might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem.

More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you
don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress
concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me.

So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it
once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you
want to be paranoid, replace the stem.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem?

Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves."

If she likes it, she should do it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable?

Well, "looks better" is individual choice. Severity of the curve would
depend on other details, I suppose.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Such as height of stem. LOL

Cheers

On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Snipped
If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim.


Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that
as a feature, not a problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it.

Cheers

Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a
road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably
don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle
bar angle or height, etc., for years..
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 17:28:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/13/2019 5:20 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:14:20 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/13/2019 2:00 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 1:30:53 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/12/2019 11:15 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:


I don't recall whether my handlebars came with the Raleigh Carleton or
the Fugi Grand Tourer -- we swapped components rather suddenly when a
mechanic overhauling the Raleigh found a defect in the brake bridge
that was above his pay grade. I don't think I ever knew whether the
handlebars and stems were included in the swap; we just left both
bikes with the mechanic.

It says "GB" in a circle in a recessed diamond on the stem.

Just above the point of the diamond, an adjusting barrel for the front
brake cable is set in the top of a hole through the stem.

I read somewhere that drilling a hole through the stem is a terrible,
horrible idea, and it makes sense that one should avoid weakening such
a vital component, but it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves.

So as long as the hole is there I might as well use it, but the
mechanic at the Trailhouse routes the cable around the stem, as if
there were no hole.

I'm going to have the bike overhauled pretty soon, and I'm thinking of
telling him to use the hole -- but is there some *other* reason why
routing a brale cable through the stem is a bad idea?

The hole causes what's called "stress concentration." That means when
there's a significant load on the stem, stresses will be higher in the
area right around the hole than they would have been without the hole.

Stress concentration is more of a problem for aluminum than for steel,
for reasons I won't go into here (unless asked). But it's not
necessarily a significant problem. Everyone accepts holes in aluminum
hubs (to attach spokes). I have holes drilled in my aluminum frame to
attach shift levers, bottle cages, etc. The problems arise only if the
concentrated stresses are higher than what the metal can resist for the
long term.

I gather from your posts that you're probably not a person who does lots
of high torque pedaling on sprints or tough climbs, where you're yanking
hard on the handlebars. Those yanks would put torque on the stem and
might generate some significant stress. But I doubt you'll see a problem.

More significant, perhaps, is that the hole is already there. If you
don't use the hole it doesn't improve the situation; it's still a stress
concentration. So leaving the cable out of the hole seems silly to me.

So I'd use it as intended. If you want to be super-diligent, check it
once a month to see if any tiny cracks are emanating from it. If you
want to be paranoid, replace the stem.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Her brake cable is already outside of the hole in the stem. Why should she have the housing shortened and all the work done to put the cable through the stem when braking won't be improved one iota but she'll have problems if in the future she wants to either raise or lower her stem?

Because, as Joy said: "it's a tempting idea: It looks neater, it
makes the path of the cable slightly smoother, and it makes the cable
a more convenient place to hang my gloves."

If she likes it, she should do it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I just looked at my MTB that has a hole in the stem and my cable is on the outside of the stem. To me it looks better and the curve is not as severe. Maybe it's because I use less cable?

Well, "looks better" is individual choice. Severity of the curve would
depend on other details, I suppose.

If you are using "brifters" than under the bar wrapping seems to work
best. If good old fashioned brake levers than probably the hole in the
stem would work as well as the cable stop that mounts under the front
tube bearing stop nut, or one that clamps to the stem (shank?)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:09:44 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Snipped
If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim.


Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that
as a feature, not a problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it.

Cheers

Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a
road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably
don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle
bar angle or height, etc., for years..
--
cheers,

John B.

I sometimes change the height of my MTB stem depending on the terrain I'm riding or how much gear/weight I'm carrying. Actually, what I have on my MTB gravel/logging road touring bike with drop bars is a quill adjustable stem.. I set the cables with the stem at the highest point I'd use it and that way I don't have to worry about rubbing brake pads if I raise the stem. I like a more upright position when riding loose surfaces and then lower the stem if I'm doing a lot of distance on pavement. I often have both on my Northern Ontario Canada tours. I ride the pavement to and from the gravel/mining roads I'll be touring and then adjust the stem for the best fit once I'm on the gravel.

Cheers

On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 18:34:53 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:09:44 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Snipped
If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim.


Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that
as a feature, not a problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it.

Cheers

Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a
road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably
don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle
bar angle or height, etc., for years..
--
cheers,

John B.

I sometimes change the height of my MTB stem depending on the terrain I'm riding or how much gear/weight I'm carrying. Actually, what I have on my MTB gravel/logging road touring bike with drop bars is a quill adjustable stem. I set the cables with the stem at the highest point I'd use it and that way I don't have to worry about rubbing brake pads if I raise the stem. I like a more upright position when riding loose surfaces and then lower the stem if I'm doing a lot of distance on pavement. I often have both on my Northern Ontario Canada tours. I ride the pavement to and from the gravel/mining roads I'll be touring and then adjust the stem for the best fit once I'm on the gravel.

Well then having a cable stop mounted on the stem could involve
frequent brake adjustments :-)

Perhaps a cable stop mounted on head tube bearing lock like road bikes
used to have... except an MTP probably doesn't have a head tube
bearing adjusting lock nut.

Or, just use vee brakes and forget the whole cable stop question :-)




Cheers
--
cheers,

John B.

On 14/04/2019 03:09, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Snipped
If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim.


Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that
as a feature, not a problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it.

Cheers

Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a
road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably
don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle
bar angle or height, etc., for years..

Dropper stems :-)

Btw, sig-sep broken?

--space

On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 10:41:21 +0200, Tosspot
wrote:

On 14/04/2019 03:09, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:17:34 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 9:32:09 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2019 5:58 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Snipped
If you want to raise or lower a stem with a hole in it to which the front brake cable is anchored then you'd have to adjust the brakes too as lower the stem will move the pads away from the rim and raising the stem will move the pads closer to the rim.


Back when that was the standard setup on MTBs, we saw that
as a feature, not a problem.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Until you go to raise that stem and it causes the brake pads to bind against the rim. I remember having that happen a lot on those MTBs that had the hole in the stem with the brake cable going through it.

Cheers

Does one raise and lower the handle bars frequently on a MTB? On a
road bike once I have the bike set up to be comfortable I probably
don't change anything, seat height, fore and fat seat position, handle
bar angle or height, etc., for years..

Dropper stems :-)

Btw, sig-sep broken?

--space

"Fore and fat" should have been written "fore and aft" :-)

--
cheers,

John B.