IQ-X vs Edelux II

By golly, I AM the boss psychologist. On April 7th I wrote:
"**
Now watch the wretched Krygowski screech "Danger! Danger!" merely for wanting to see obstructions at night. There is no, repeat no, reason a bicyclist shouldn't wish for lamps at least the equivalent of those on a European (not American) motorcar. To argue contrarily, as Kreepy Krygo does, is to concede in advance that cyclist have less claim to the road -- and to safety -- than motorists.
***

And here the wretched Krygowski IS screeching "Danger! Danger!" This the same ******, the same Krygowski, who for each lamp Busch und Muller ever made claimed it was adequate for cyclists, and abused everyone who had their brains in gear and reported what their eyes could see, that the lamps were lethals. And here, below, and in other posts in this thread, the dumb cluck Krygowski does indeed concede that a cyclist doesn't have an innate right to cast the same light on the road as a motorist.

Just as i predicted.

Andre Jute
Thanks Franki-boy: you put a few bucks in my pocket from bets with my poker school, fellow professionals, that I can predict what you will say.


On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:48:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/8/2019 4:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/7/2019 5:07 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

In my opinion, the Cyo is the first barely* adequate bicycle lamp by
any manufacturer with universal distribution. Leaving aside the matter
of the top cutoff, the Cyo is still inferior the MR11 and MR16 lamps I
built to Scharfie's plans (a public service to cyclists) lo! these
many years ago.

snip

Remember that the Cyo was designed to be StVZO legal, it wasn't designed
to be the most effective in terms of illumination and safety.

The "Danger! Danger!" Safety Inflation contingent defines "most
effective in terms of illumination and safety" to be something like
this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RU...ature=youtu.be
Their standard is simple: As long as something brighter exists, nothing
else is safe enough.

"sms" AKA Scharf seems to fantasize that the German government enacted
design requirements in an effort to kill cyclists. But instead, the
StVZO requirements are intended to give cyclists adequate visibility and
road illumination without blinding others. Of course, those with either
"Danger! Danger!" paranoia or MFFY attitudes don't care about that.

Also, notice the very obvious "hot spot" directly in front of that
cyclist at about 0.33 in that video. That's what you get with headlights
with kindergarten optics, which means pretty much anything not
qualifying for StVZO. The hot spot tends to blind the cyclist using the
light. Your eyes adjust for the intense brightness of that spot, thus
are stopped down too far to see into the relatively darker areas beyond.

Properly designed road vehicle optics are very similar for bicycles,
cars, trucks or motorcycles. The portion of the beam pointing downward
should be dimmer since it illuminates the road very close to the
operator and has less distance to travel. Portions of the beam pointed
further forward should gradually increase in brightness, and the portion
pointing furthest down the road should be brightest. Above that should
be a cutoff, sending enough light to be seen by, but not so much as to
glare in others' eyes. The result of this is very uniform road
illumination, easiest on the eyes and best for showing road obstacles.

And ANY headlight beam that adequately illuminates the road is EASILY
visible to other road users. "I gotta blind people to be seen" is just
stupid.

The Cyo lacks a modulated mode, presumably because in many countries
such a mode would not be legal.

The main root cause for Cyo lacking a modulated mode is that only one
nutty California politician thinks it needs one.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 9:01:18 AM UTC+1, sms wrote:
On 4/7/2019 5:07 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

In my opinion, the Cyo is the first barely* adequate bicycle lamp by
any manufacturer with universal distribution. Leaving aside the matter
of the top cutoff, the Cyo is still inferior the MR11 and MR16 lamps I
built to Scharfie's plans (a public service to cyclists) lo! these
many years ago.

snip

Remember that the Cyo was designed to be StVZO legal, it wasn't designed
to be the most effective in terms of illumination and safety.

I went into this thoroughly a few years ago, to the extent of reading the debate which led to the enactment of the predecessor legislation which was incorporated in the StVZO regulation. The model was a German housewife cycling home with her groceries at no more than 15kph (9mph). The lamp was limited in output and modulated modes were forbidden at the behest of the motoring organizations. Illumination for the benefit and safety of the cyclist was nowhere in this cynical political trade-off that Krygowski goes through such contortions to defend. The chief motivating factor was that motorists thought cyclists should not have anything more than a "be seen" lamp, and politicians agreed because there were more motorist voters than bicycle voters. Cycling was then thought of as the poverty choice (actually, I was in Germany a lot then and I thought Germany had already recovered from the wartime devastation -- otherwise my Board wouldn't have let me waste my time on a nation without disposable income for luxury goods), and it was commonly accepted that the aspiration of every decent German was a two-car family.

As an aside, it is worth noting that the same legislation crippled hub dynamos, because it also set an output limit, and the speed at which that output limit should be achieved, which accounts for the SON hub dynamo at low speed being inferior to the better models of Shimano hub dynamo -- the Japanese just made their dynamo ramp up its output earlier, in the common Japanese style, because they could.

[snip]
The Cyo lacks a modulated mode, presumably because in many countries
such a mode would not be legal.

See above. The Cyo lacks a modulated mode because it is made in Germany under StVZO regulations, and BUMM doesn't build a blinkie model for export because they agree with the StVZO regulations. BUMM has circuits for blinkies already because they build them for sale in Germany where the StVZO allows modulation, on road bikes using public roads for "training".

Andre Jute
Knowledge is strength

On 4/8/2019 6:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:48:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/8/2019 4:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/7/2019 5:07 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

In my opinion, the Cyo is the first barely* adequate bicycle lamp by
any manufacturer with universal distribution. Leaving aside the matter
of the top cutoff, the Cyo is still inferior the MR11 and MR16 lamps I
built to Scharfie's plans (a public service to cyclists) lo! these
many years ago.

snip

Remember that the Cyo was designed to be StVZO legal, it wasn't designed
to be the most effective in terms of illumination and safety.

The "Danger! Danger!" Safety Inflation contingent defines "most
effective in terms of illumination and safety" to be something like
this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RU...ature=youtu.be
Their standard is simple: As long as something brighter exists, nothing
else is safe enough.

"sms" AKA Scharf seems to fantasize that the German government enacted
design requirements in an effort to kill cyclists. But instead, the
StVZO requirements are intended to give cyclists adequate visibility and
road illumination without blinding others. Of course, those with either
"Danger! Danger!" paranoia or MFFY attitudes don't care about that.

Also, notice the very obvious "hot spot" directly in front of that
cyclist at about 0.33 in that video. That's what you get with headlights
with kindergarten optics, which means pretty much anything not
qualifying for StVZO. The hot spot tends to blind the cyclist using the
light. Your eyes adjust for the intense brightness of that spot, thus
are stopped down too far to see into the relatively darker areas beyond.

Properly designed road vehicle optics are very similar for bicycles,
cars, trucks or motorcycles. The portion of the beam pointing downward
should be dimmer since it illuminates the road very close to the
operator and has less distance to travel. Portions of the beam pointed
further forward should gradually increase in brightness, and the portion
pointing furthest down the road should be brightest. Above that should
be a cutoff, sending enough light to be seen by, but not so much as to
glare in others' eyes. The result of this is very uniform road
illumination, easiest on the eyes and best for showing road obstacles.

And ANY headlight beam that adequately illuminates the road is EASILY
visible to other road users. "I gotta blind people to be seen" is just
stupid.

The Cyo lacks a modulated mode, presumably because in many countries
such a mode would not be legal.

The main root cause for Cyo lacking a modulated mode is that only one
nutty California politician thinks it needs one.

Given that high/low beam lights have been installed on Autos since
1915 - some hundred plus years ago - the design can no longer be
considered "rocket science". It seems illogical, at best, to believe
that they couldn't be installed on bicycles and one can only assume
that the failure to do so and the resultant complaints of "blinding
lights" on bicycles is simply a matter of sloth on the part of light
makers or ignorance on the part of politicians for not demanding such
minimal design specifications for legal bicycle lighting.

If someone wants to do it, it's easy. Choose an StVZO compliant
headlight. That's your low beam. Add a cheap high power headlamp with
kindergarten optics - there are dozens and dozens of choices. that's
your high beam.

If dynamo driven, you can wire them in series and both will illuminate.
To cut out the high beam, wire a switch across the high beam's
terminals, in parallel with the light. When the switch is closed, the
"high beam" lamp will be bypassed.

I did something similar many years ago, but with an added "A or B"
switch. At the time, I was comparing different halogen lamps plus seeing
how well my dynamo would drive both.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 12:28:27 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Front flashers, especially in daytime, are just part of the leading edge
of bicycling safety inflation. Only "hi-viz" vests are more extreme.
--
- Frank Krygowski

???

https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/in...page=reglement
According to French traffic law, a high visibility vest MUST be worn when riding at night (EN 1150 or EN ISO 20471 certified to meet international safety standards).

Now the rules for Paris Brest Paris do say the high visibility vest must be worn at NIGHT. But they kind of imply, encourage, demand you wear it all the time on PBP. I rode PBP in 2007. PBP has been around since 1891. Not sure when France started. But its been around for a few hundred or thousand years in one form or another under all kinds of different leadership and government.

On 4/8/2019 6:49 PM, John B. wrote:

Why in the world shouldn't bicycle lights have a high and low beam?
After all mankind has quite obviously known to engineer such a complex
devise for a hundred years or more and my 1948 Royal Enfield 350cc
motorcycle certainly had high-low beam lights. Why not bicycles?

As I just explained in another post, anyone can do it with stock
components and a little wiring. If you haven't done it yet, it's probaby
because you haven't judged it to be worth the trouble.

I once had a setup that worked (sort of) that way. I played with it for
a year or two. I stopped using it because I really didn't need it once I
bought a modern StVZO LED headlight.

If you do the dual beam installation, let us know how much use you get
out of it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 2:05:01 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Not sure when France started. But its been around for a few hundred or thousand years in one form or another under all kinds of different leadership and government.

"France" is a relatively recent national and geographic concept, though not as youthful as "Germany", which barely out of living memory was a bunch of small states plus Prussia, which was the only one that mattered. Until Napoleon's time, the French didn't even all speak the same language; Napoleon imposed a single universal language with the utmost brutality so that a lot of the new "French" cheered when he sailed away to St Helena. I imagine most historian still agree that "France" started when Louis XIV, the Sun King (effective reign 1661- 1715), forced the aristocracy to come live at court so that he could keep control of the warring factions. By the time of the French Revolution three-quarters of a century after the death of the Sun King the borders of France were pretty much fixed until 1918.

If you mean modern France, it depends on which numerical "Republic" you speak of, because their constitutions were quite different.

Andre Jute
Ciao

On 4/8/2019 9:04 PM, wrote:
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 12:28:27 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Front flashers, especially in daytime, are just part of the leading edge
of bicycling safety inflation. Only "hi-viz" vests are more extreme.
--
- Frank Krygowski

???

https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/in...page=reglement
According to French traffic law, a high visibility vest MUST be worn when riding at night (EN 1150 or EN ISO 20471 certified to meet international safety standards).

Now the rules for Paris Brest Paris do say the high visibility vest must be worn at NIGHT. But they kind of imply, encourage, demand you wear it all the time on PBP.

Yes, I know.

But I don't understand your question marks. It shouldn't be surprising
that this unusual French law is enforced in a competitive French riding
event. (Even though it's ignored almost everywhere else.)

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/4/19 11:06 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/8/2019 6:49 PM, John B. wrote:

Why in the world shouldn't bicycle lights have a high and low beam?
After all mankind has quite obviously known to engineer such a complex
devise for a hundred years or more and my 1948 Royal Enfield 350cc
motorcycle certainly had high-low beam lights. Why not bicycles?

As I just explained in another post, anyone can do it with stock
components and a little wiring. If you haven't done it yet, it's probaby
because you haven't judged it to be worth the trouble.


If I was to go to the trouble I would want a dual beam headlight that
mounts between the fork crown and front brake centre bolt, and a switch
neatly integrated with my brifters.

I once had a setup that worked (sort of) that way. I played with it for
a year or two. I stopped using it because I really didn't need it once I
bought a modern StVZO LED headlight.

Actually I would want a beam that is still shaped with a horizontal
cutoff, but a less aggressive cutoff and more side spill. This may be
achievable via a lens in front of an existing light, for example. Flip
the lens down to spread the beam a bit, or flip it up and out of the way.


If you do the dual beam installation, let us know how much use you get
out of it.


Considering I ride 99% on unlit rural roads, I suspect that when I ride
at night on these roads I would favour the high beam light. YMMV.

--
JS

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 2:47:20 AM UTC+1, James wrote:

If I was to go to the trouble I would want a dual beam headlight that
mounts between the fork crown and front brake centre bolt, and a switch
neatly integrated with my brifters.

The MR16 setup I built operated both lamps simultaneously off a battery pack. One lamp was aimed downwards and slightly sideway to light up the area in front of the bike and the ditch; it was on permanently. The other lamp was the main light and was turned off with the switch under my thumb when a car approached. That worked well but the battery pack for a ride of only two hours was heavy and expensive. It might be lighter, more convenient and further-reaching today, because battery science has moved on, but I now longer ride in the middle of the night as I did during the great years of Global Warming -- it's just too bloody cold. There was another switch that could turn on only the main lamp to use it as a DRL but I soon discovered that a blinkie worked better during daylight hours; the white blinkie was never used at night. The interior decorator's 12V MR sealed lamps I used were glued into bike-color-sprayed small Roma brand tomato puree tins, which the lamps fit exactly; the tins were mounted to the handlebars with camera-mounting hardware I got from China, glued and bolted to the tins before the wired lamps were glued-in. The whole affair, which used the battery pack of a commercial high-power lamp system I didn't like, was actually pretty cheap, ten or twenty quid for all the components except the battery pack.

Andre Jute
Any illuminati in the house?

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 20:59:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/8/2019 6:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 10:48:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/8/2019 4:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 4/7/2019 5:07 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

snip

In my opinion, the Cyo is the first barely* adequate bicycle lamp by
any manufacturer with universal distribution. Leaving aside the matter
of the top cutoff, the Cyo is still inferior the MR11 and MR16 lamps I
built to Scharfie's plans (a public service to cyclists) lo! these
many years ago.

snip

Remember that the Cyo was designed to be StVZO legal, it wasn't designed
to be the most effective in terms of illumination and safety.

The "Danger! Danger!" Safety Inflation contingent defines "most
effective in terms of illumination and safety" to be something like
this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RU...ature=youtu.be
Their standard is simple: As long as something brighter exists, nothing
else is safe enough.

"sms" AKA Scharf seems to fantasize that the German government enacted
design requirements in an effort to kill cyclists. But instead, the
StVZO requirements are intended to give cyclists adequate visibility and
road illumination without blinding others. Of course, those with either
"Danger! Danger!" paranoia or MFFY attitudes don't care about that.

Also, notice the very obvious "hot spot" directly in front of that
cyclist at about 0.33 in that video. That's what you get with headlights
with kindergarten optics, which means pretty much anything not
qualifying for StVZO. The hot spot tends to blind the cyclist using the
light. Your eyes adjust for the intense brightness of that spot, thus
are stopped down too far to see into the relatively darker areas beyond.

Properly designed road vehicle optics are very similar for bicycles,
cars, trucks or motorcycles. The portion of the beam pointing downward
should be dimmer since it illuminates the road very close to the
operator and has less distance to travel. Portions of the beam pointed
further forward should gradually increase in brightness, and the portion
pointing furthest down the road should be brightest. Above that should
be a cutoff, sending enough light to be seen by, but not so much as to
glare in others' eyes. The result of this is very uniform road
illumination, easiest on the eyes and best for showing road obstacles.

And ANY headlight beam that adequately illuminates the road is EASILY
visible to other road users. "I gotta blind people to be seen" is just
stupid.

The Cyo lacks a modulated mode, presumably because in many countries
such a mode would not be legal.

The main root cause for Cyo lacking a modulated mode is that only one
nutty California politician thinks it needs one.

Given that high/low beam lights have been installed on Autos since
1915 - some hundred plus years ago - the design can no longer be
considered "rocket science". It seems illogical, at best, to believe
that they couldn't be installed on bicycles and one can only assume
that the failure to do so and the resultant complaints of "blinding
lights" on bicycles is simply a matter of sloth on the part of light
makers or ignorance on the part of politicians for not demanding such
minimal design specifications for legal bicycle lighting.

If someone wants to do it, it's easy. Choose an StVZO compliant
headlight. That's your low beam. Add a cheap high power headlamp with
kindergarten optics - there are dozens and dozens of choices. that's
your high beam.

If dynamo driven, you can wire them in series and both will illuminate.
To cut out the high beam, wire a switch across the high beam's
terminals, in parallel with the light. When the switch is closed, the
"high beam" lamp will be bypassed.

Easier than that one can buy a duel beam bicycle lights ranging from a
bit over $100 to almost any price you want to pay - the Supernova M99
Pure - Dual Beam Bike Light goes for 265 BP - about US$ 346 and Amazon
has the Nitecore BR35 1800 Lumen Dual Beam OLED Display Rechargeable
Bicycle Headlight with Remote Switch, Mount - Includes Lumen Tactical
Adapter for a mere $122.95.


I did something similar many years ago, but with an added "A or B"
switch. At the time, I was comparing different halogen lamps plus seeing
how well my dynamo would drive both.
--
cheers,

John B.