|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Eric Lambi writes:
Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor? If I'm any indication, the answer is no. And I've raced a couple hundred crits in my lifetime. I agree, although I think the opposite is true. A rider who corners fast on a moto is fast and that skill is transferable to cornering on a bicycle. That doesn't mean he'll be a strong bicyclist though. Jobst Brandt |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:10:33 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles, despite our proud claims to the contrary. You don't hear much about Lance Armstrong out-cornering the competition because bicycling is mostly slow-motion drag-racing. We usually pedal around at speeds so low that we wouldn't catch the eye of a traffic cop running a speed trap in a school zone. Carl Fogel Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles? Have to disagree, and you may too if you've ever been in fast descents on a bicycle, where picking your line is important. I'm not sure if you remember the 1997 Tour de France when Richard Virenque was trying to put Jan Ullrich at great risk in the corners on one of the mountain states. The roads were wet and slick as Jan had pretty poor descending skills in the rain. Virenque knew this and took advantage of his winter training in the French alps. Ullrich nearly crashed and could have changed the outcome of the finish of the Tour, but he played it safe and let Richard have his day. Ulrich went on to win the Tour and the rest is history. I ride both, motorcycles, and bicycles, and ride them fast in the corners if I'm familiar with the road, or can visibly see the road ahead. Cornering on a motorcycle and cornering on a bicycle are two different things. Throttle plays an important role in corning on a motorcycle, something you don't have on a bicycles. As far as picking lines, it's about the same. -tom Dear Tom, I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner harder on descents. But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph. Armstrong averages all of 25 mph for the whole Tour. Here's another way to look at it. Cornering is crucial on the annual Pikes Peak hill climb. No one talks about Lance's fantastic cornering skill in his lightning ascent at 16 mph of the Alp d'Huez. And if Armstrong came back down the same road at speed, he might be doing some impressive cornering, but he'd have considerably less braking to do into each corner than a racer on a motorcycle, whose engine would let it pass on the straights. Carl Fogel |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:10:33 -0700, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote: wrote in message .. . Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles, despite our proud claims to the contrary. You don't hear much about Lance Armstrong out-cornering the competition because bicycling is mostly slow-motion drag-racing. We usually pedal around at speeds so low that we wouldn't catch the eye of a traffic cop running a speed trap in a school zone. Carl Fogel Cornering isn't terribly important on bicycles? Have to disagree, and you may too if you've ever been in fast descents on a bicycle, where picking your line is important. I'm not sure if you remember the 1997 Tour de France when Richard Virenque was trying to put Jan Ullrich at great risk in the corners on one of the mountain states. The roads were wet and slick as Jan had pretty poor descending skills in the rain. Virenque knew this and took advantage of his winter training in the French alps. Ullrich nearly crashed and could have changed the outcome of the finish of the Tour, but he played it safe and let Richard have his day. Ulrich went on to win the Tour and the rest is history. I ride both, motorcycles, and bicycles, and ride them fast in the corners if I'm familiar with the road, or can visibly see the road ahead. Cornering on a motorcycle and cornering on a bicycle are two different things. Throttle plays an important role in corning on a motorcycle, something you don't have on a bicycles. As far as picking lines, it's about the same. -tom Dear Tom, I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner harder on descents. But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph. Armstrong averages all of 25 mph for the whole Tour. Here's another way to look at it. Cornering is crucial on the annual Pikes Peak hill climb. No one talks about Lance's fantastic cornering skill in his lightning ascent at 16 mph of the Alp d'Huez. And if Armstrong came back down the same road at speed, he might be doing some impressive cornering, but he'd have considerably less braking to do into each corner than a racer on a motorcycle, whose engine would let it pass on the straights. Carl Fogel |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
#15
|
|||
|
|||
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
dw said...
Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor? I've logged over 60,000 miles on motorcycles and logged more than most people on bikes. There are some similarities and some skills that transfer, but there are some important differences and some habits that you may have on a bicycle could be disaster on a motorcycle. The most likely time to have an accident on a motorcycle is when moving at slow speeds. True, you won't get splattered at very low speeds, but damage to the bike and less than life threatening injuries to you are no fun either. Motorcycles are extremely clumsy at slow speeds. You must balance them perfectly, and use all of your skills and attention to keep them perpendicular. You can't slouch around like you can on a bike at slow speeds, because it is bigger than you are and if it starts going over, you may not be able to stop it. All of this is related to the weight of motorcycles, which is profoundly different than bicycles. Another big difference is power. Motorcycles are amazingly quick and powerful, even the supposedly slow big hogs. You can't compare the interplay of power and two-wheels to anything else. That is what makes motorcycles motorcycles. It is a whole new skill set that must be learned. Motorcycles also have a control set that is unique, and even different motorcycles may have slightly different control configurations. The rider must become very skillful in the use of these controls in a very short time. I recommend going out onto the lowest traffic road you can find and practice starting, stopping, shifting, downshifting and emergency stops. Do it until you are sick of it. It may very well save your life. Having said all that, if the fledgling rider survives the learning curve, motorcycles are an enjoyable and reasonably safe way to travel. Last but not least beware of the fact that what seems like a warm temperature may be too cold to comfortably ride a motorcycle. When the sun sets on a summer day, it may be almost unbearably cold traveling at speed on a motorcycle without a jacket and long pants. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
dw said...
Do the 2-wheel skills go along when you use a metal motor? I've logged over 60,000 miles on motorcycles and logged more than most people on bikes. There are some similarities and some skills that transfer, but there are some important differences and some habits that you may have on a bicycle could be disaster on a motorcycle. The most likely time to have an accident on a motorcycle is when moving at slow speeds. True, you won't get splattered at very low speeds, but damage to the bike and less than life threatening injuries to you are no fun either. Motorcycles are extremely clumsy at slow speeds. You must balance them perfectly, and use all of your skills and attention to keep them perpendicular. You can't slouch around like you can on a bike at slow speeds, because it is bigger than you are and if it starts going over, you may not be able to stop it. All of this is related to the weight of motorcycles, which is profoundly different than bicycles. Another big difference is power. Motorcycles are amazingly quick and powerful, even the supposedly slow big hogs. You can't compare the interplay of power and two-wheels to anything else. That is what makes motorcycles motorcycles. It is a whole new skill set that must be learned. Motorcycles also have a control set that is unique, and even different motorcycles may have slightly different control configurations. The rider must become very skillful in the use of these controls in a very short time. I recommend going out onto the lowest traffic road you can find and practice starting, stopping, shifting, downshifting and emergency stops. Do it until you are sick of it. It may very well save your life. Having said all that, if the fledgling rider survives the learning curve, motorcycles are an enjoyable and reasonably safe way to travel. Last but not least beware of the fact that what seems like a warm temperature may be too cold to comfortably ride a motorcycle. When the sun sets on a summer day, it may be almost unbearably cold traveling at speed on a motorcycle without a jacket and long pants. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:13:46 -0700, Benjamin Lewis
wrote: wrote: I agree that pros with races on the line may corner harder than we do, or that some of you (I can't say us) corner harder on descents. But most bicycling does not involve the kind of braking and cornering that's routine on motorcycles because most bicycling takes place at only 10 to 20 mph. That just means that "hard cornering" occurs at a smaller turning radius, so this is only true if you're talking about bicycles and motorcycles riding on the same or similar course (and perhaps you are; I'm just jumping in at random ) Dear Benjamin, True, I'm assuming similar courses. But the speed of most bicycle riding is limited not by the curves, but by the feeble motors. I doubt, for example, that Armstrong got up the Alp d'Huez that fast because of his cornering technique. Apart from one-way downhills, are there any bicycle races in which cornering is the deciding factor? That is, races in which riders who are roughly as fast on the straights are helpless to keep up because they corner too slowly? I know little about bicycle racing, so I'm curious if I'm missing something here. I certainly don't see much about cornering here on rec.bicycles.tech. Carl Fogel |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Rec.Bicycles Frequently Asked Questions Posting Part 1/5 | Mike Iglesias | General | 4 | October 29th 04 07:11 AM |
Cyclists are a Perverted Pestulance [Times Article 18/02] | David Off | UK | 70 | February 24th 04 10:50 PM |
Mutual respect - long-ish | vernon levy | UK | 4 | January 31st 04 07:04 PM |
FAQ | Just zis Guy, you know? | UK | 27 | September 5th 03 10:58 PM |