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#202
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Bike adjustments
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#203
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Bike adjustments
On 16/12/19 5:11 am, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:20:01 PM UTC-8, James wrote: On 15/12/19 2:06 pm, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 6:46:36 PM UTC-8, James wrote: A phobia of hydraulics? No, I don't have one of those, but I appreciate the simplicity and reliability of cables. I don't need self adjustment or extra light feel. My grip strength is pretty good. I gave up my desk job and retired at about age 40, and now spend time hobby farming. Anyone who works on the land is likely to have fairly good grip strength. You don't consider hydraulics which are used on every single auto in the world as simplistic and reliable? Just making you think about what you said. Simplistic and reliable compared with cable operated bicycle brakes? No. Why don't they rely on hydraulics for the handbrake? -- JS 1. A handbrake is a backup for the Park setting on the transmission or the low gear or reverse you leave it in when parked. It HAS no force nor can it stop the car if it is rolling at anything over 5 mph. Rubbish. Using the transmission as a brake is only desirable when parking on a steep hill, and the park brake will certainly stop a car from almost any speed, provided it is not down a steep hill where it might overheat the park brake disc or drum. 2. The REAL braking on an auto is with hydraulics. Why add an entirely additional hydraulic system when a cable cost 1/4th. The trade-off is cheap vs effective. Hydraulics are used on a car braking system for quite different reasons. Balancing the braking force and being able to assist the driver with a vacuum assisted brake booster, for example - and now automatic braking systems that modulate the brakes to avoid skidding. All of that would be far more challenging with cable brakes on a car. -- JS |
#204
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Bike adjustments
On 16/12/19 9:26 am, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:19:58 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote: Bicycle hydraulic brakes are not nearly as reliable or durable as any such brakes used on a motor vehicle (even a cheap motorcycle or scooter). Also, bicycles don't have the sort of long, tortuous brake line routing that makes cable brakes a bad choice for many motor vehicles. Hydraulic bicycle brakes are just a vanity feature that introduces new modes of failure and service requirements, without bringing any measurable benefits to offset the drawbacks. Hydraulics are measurably better on my commuter with its tortured cable runs and long housing. The housing/cable drag and weak return spring on BB7s produced a draggy cable disc. The hydraulics are exceptionally positive, great stopping in wet weather -- which is most of my riding this time of year -- and they have been problem free. YMMV. And since when is a hydro disc a vanity feature? It's not like a status symbol of some kind. It has an essential purpose -- braking. I could always jam a stick between my front tire and fork crown or ride a fixie, but instead I ride a bike with a hydro disc brake. At what point is something not a vanity item? 5 speed balloon tires -- or three -- or one. What is the absolutely ethical bike? I'll get one of those and drag it up and down the hills in the rain so I can be authentic. My gravel bike has non-torturous cable routing, and cable actuated disc brakes work absolutely fine. If your frame wasn't designed with such tricky routing, cables would probably be fine for you too. Having fancy concealed and torturous cable/tube routing is a vanity feature. LOL -- JS |
#205
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Bike adjustments
On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 8:08:46 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 16/12/19 9:26 am, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 10:19:58 PM UTC-8, Chalo wrote: Bicycle hydraulic brakes are not nearly as reliable or durable as any such brakes used on a motor vehicle (even a cheap motorcycle or scooter). Also, bicycles don't have the sort of long, tortuous brake line routing that makes cable brakes a bad choice for many motor vehicles. Hydraulic bicycle brakes are just a vanity feature that introduces new modes of failure and service requirements, without bringing any measurable benefits to offset the drawbacks. Hydraulics are measurably better on my commuter with its tortured cable runs and long housing. The housing/cable drag and weak return spring on BB7s produced a draggy cable disc. The hydraulics are exceptionally positive, great stopping in wet weather -- which is most of my riding this time of year -- and they have been problem free. YMMV. And since when is a hydro disc a vanity feature? It's not like a status symbol of some kind. It has an essential purpose -- braking. I could always jam a stick between my front tire and fork crown or ride a fixie, but instead I ride a bike with a hydro disc brake. At what point is something not a vanity item? 5 speed balloon tires -- or three -- or one. What is the absolutely ethical bike? I'll get one of those and drag it up and down the hills in the rain so I can be authentic. My gravel bike has non-torturous cable routing, and cable actuated disc brakes work absolutely fine. If your frame wasn't designed with such tricky routing, cables would probably be fine for you too. Having fancy concealed and torturous cable/tube routing is a vanity feature. LOL It's not because they're concealed, its because the whole run is in housing and takes some hard turns to the top of the chain stay. It was a poor match with a BB7, and it's true, the frame was built for hydraulics with flat mount rear. That's pretty standard these days. I used cable discs for over 15 years. I prefer the feel of hydraulic, but I personally don't care what other people use. -- Jay Beattie. |
#206
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Bike adjustments
On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:48:29 +1100, James
wrote: On 15/12/19 11:33 pm, wrote: On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 7:20:01 AM UTC+1, James wrote: On 15/12/19 2:06 pm, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 6:46:36 PM UTC-8, James wrote: A phobia of hydraulics? No, I don't have one of those, but I appreciate the simplicity and reliability of cables. I don't need self adjustment or extra light feel. My grip strength is pretty good. I gave up my desk job and retired at about age 40, and now spend time hobby farming. Anyone who works on the land is likely to have fairly good grip strength. You don't consider hydraulics which are used on every single auto in the world as simplistic and reliable? Just making you think about what you said. Simplistic and reliable compared with cable operated bicycle brakes? No. Why don't they rely on hydraulics for the handbrake? Hmm, I don't know if a cable operated handbrake is a good example. You never had a frozen cable? No. Never. Conditions where that might happen in Australia are extremely rare. It was 43 degrees C on the road as I rode home today from a 90 km ride. I had and that was really a PIA. In all manuals of the cars I had with a cable operated handbrakes it was advised not to use it in wet freezing weather, just put the car in second gear. I don't know why second gear is magical. I'd put mine in first or reverse perhaps, if I didn't have confidence the hand brake would hold on a steep hill. After my incident I just did that. Never used a handbrake except for getting started on a hill. I don't know how it works in my current car with an automatic transmission but I'm sure there is no cable in there. Anyhow all of my hydraulic disc brakes proved to be extremely reliable, never had any issues with them on three of my bikes. YMMV. For off road riding in the winter it was quite good today. My cross bike looked like this after todays ride: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZjpqaJLvVsGfqT366 Pretty clean. In contrast, of the 5 different cars I have owned, 3 of them have had problems with the hydraulic brakes. Mostly leaky slave cylinders, and one leaky master cylinder. The cable actuated hand brakes have never failed, and neither have the cable actuated brakes on my bicycles. I would suggest that if you used the cable operated hand brake, i.e., Parking Brake, as frequently as you do the hydraulic brakes that you would have had far more problems with it than the hydraulics :-) -- cheers, John B. |
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