Question For Benjo

B. Lafferty wrote:
I wonder if this might be the after effect of EPO use. Deep vein
thrombosis, according to my veterinary wife, can be caused by sludging of
the blood (high hematocrit) which causes damage to the vein leading to
leakage. I suppose the issue is whether or not the stress on deep veins
from cycling years using EPO can result in vein damage that can lead to
thrombosis problems a few years later. Furlan was a patient of Ferrari with
Ferrari's records indicating that Furlan's hematocrit went from 38.8 to 51
during a period of six months.


This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a
few months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about
120 days).
OTOH, I would guess that depending upon saddle style, posture, etc.
that years of sitting in the saddle could affect venous return from the
legs. Without getting into gruesome details, I've personally seen some
unpleasant effects. Furthermore, perfectly healthy people can have
problems with leg thromboses in certain circumstances, such as sitting
relatively immobile on a long transatlantic flight. Thrombosis and
emboli are becoming more recognized as a significant risk in situations
like this.

http://tinyurl.com/4l4qf

Steve


I happened across this when Googling deep vein thrombosis polycythemia. OJ
sends his regards.:-)

http://www.cochranfirm.com/askourdoctors-dvt.html

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
hlink.net...

I've just learned that Ivan Gotti and Georgio Furlan have had health
problems since retiring. Any idea what those problems are?
Thanks.


I don't know about Gotti, but Furlan was suffering from deep vein
thrombosis (blood knots in the leg).

Benjo

"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
...


B. Lafferty wrote:
I wonder if this might be the after effect of EPO use. Deep vein
thrombosis, according to my veterinary wife, can be caused by sludging of
the blood (high hematocrit) which causes damage to the vein leading to
leakage. I suppose the issue is whether or not the stress on deep veins
from cycling years using EPO can result in vein damage that can lead to
thrombosis problems a few years later. Furlan was a patient of Ferrari
with Ferrari's records indicating that Furlan's hematocrit went from 38.8
to 51 during a period of six months.


This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to cause
"sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After discontinuing
EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a few months at most
(IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about 120 days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein while
using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys had
hematocrits in the 60%+ range.

OTOH, I would guess that depending upon saddle style, posture, etc. that
years of sitting in the saddle could affect venous return from the legs.
Without getting into gruesome details, I've personally seen some
unpleasant effects. Furthermore, perfectly healthy people can have
problems with leg thromboses in certain circumstances, such as sitting
relatively immobile on a long transatlantic flight. Thrombosis and emboli
are becoming more recognized as a significant risk in situations like
this.

I agree that it is a problem that is in fact a major public health issue.
IIRC, DVT and resultant PE kills more people than heart attacks and AIDS in
the USA.


http://tinyurl.com/4l4qf

Steve


I happened across this when Googling deep vein thrombosis polycythemia.
OJ sends his regards.:-)

http://www.cochranfirm.com/askourdoctors-dvt.html

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
thlink.net...

I've just learned that Ivan Gotti and Georgio Furlan have had health
problems since retiring. Any idea what those problems are?
Thanks.


I don't know about Gotti, but Furlan was suffering from deep vein
thrombosis (blood knots in the leg).

Benjo

"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
...


B. Lafferty wrote:
I wonder if this might be the after effect of EPO use. Deep vein
thrombosis, according to my veterinary wife, can be caused by sludging of
the blood (high hematocrit) which causes damage to the vein leading to
leakage. I suppose the issue is whether or not the stress on deep veins
from cycling years using EPO can result in vein damage that can lead to
thrombosis problems a few years later. Furlan was a patient of Ferrari
with Ferrari's records indicating that Furlan's hematocrit went from 38.8
to 51 during a period of six months.


This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to cause
"sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After discontinuing
EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a few months at most
(IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about 120 days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein while
using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys had
hematocrits in the 60%+ range.

OTOH, I would guess that depending upon saddle style, posture, etc. that
years of sitting in the saddle could affect venous return from the legs.
Without getting into gruesome details, I've personally seen some
unpleasant effects. Furthermore, perfectly healthy people can have
problems with leg thromboses in certain circumstances, such as sitting
relatively immobile on a long transatlantic flight. Thrombosis and emboli
are becoming more recognized as a significant risk in situations like
this.

I agree that it is a problem that is in fact a major public health issue.
IIRC, DVT and resultant PE kills more people than heart attacks and AIDS in
the USA.


http://tinyurl.com/4l4qf

Steve


I happened across this when Googling deep vein thrombosis polycythemia.
OJ sends his regards.:-)

http://www.cochranfirm.com/askourdoctors-dvt.html

"benjo maso" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
thlink.net...

I've just learned that Ivan Gotti and Georgio Furlan have had health
problems since retiring. Any idea what those problems are?
Thanks.


I don't know about Gotti, but Furlan was suffering from deep vein
thrombosis (blood knots in the leg).

Benjo

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a few
months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about 120
days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein while
using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys had
hematocrits in the 60%+ range.


Maybe you should ask your vet. And ask if such damage is permanent or
repairable over time as well.

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a few
months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about 120
days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein while
using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys had
hematocrits in the 60%+ range.


Maybe you should ask your vet. And ask if such damage is permanent or
repairable over time as well.

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a
few months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about
120 days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein
while using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys
had hematocrits in the 60%+ range.


Maybe you should ask your vet. And ask if such damage is permanent or
repairable over time as well.

Not her area of expertise as an ophthalmologist.

Do you have two wives, or is your wife an ophthalmological specializing vet?
If she knew the answer to the first part of your question, why doesn't she
know the second part or at least know where to find the answer?

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a
few months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about
120 days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein
while using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys
had hematocrits in the 60%+ range.


Maybe you should ask your vet. And ask if such damage is permanent or
repairable over time as well.

Not her area of expertise as an ophthalmologist.

Do you have two wives, or is your wife an ophthalmological specializing vet?
If she knew the answer to the first part of your question, why doesn't she
know the second part or at least know where to find the answer?

"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
news:Rm6od.18679$233.347@okepread05...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a
few months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about
120 days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein
while using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys
had hematocrits in the 60%+ range.


Maybe you should ask your vet. And ask if such damage is permanent or
repairable over time as well.

Not her area of expertise as an ophthalmologist.

Do you have two wives, or is your wife an ophthalmological specializing
vet? If she knew the answer to the first part of your question, why
doesn't she know the second part or at least know where to find the
answer?

Board certified veterinary ophthalmologist. She couldn't be bothered
checking. We have enough human doctors lurking around here that we should
be able to get an answer, if there is one. I doubt there have been any
clinical studies of retired cyclists who raced under EPO with hematocrits of
60%+.

"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
news:Rm6od.18679$233.347@okepread05...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message

This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to
cause "sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After
discontinuing EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a
few months at most (IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about
120 days).

Sludging several years later is not an issue. My question is really
directed toward what damage, if any, may have been done to the vein
while using the EPO, especially in the pre-50% period when these guys
had hematocrits in the 60%+ range.


Maybe you should ask your vet. And ask if such damage is permanent or
repairable over time as well.

Not her area of expertise as an ophthalmologist.

Do you have two wives, or is your wife an ophthalmological specializing
vet? If she knew the answer to the first part of your question, why
doesn't she know the second part or at least know where to find the
answer?

Board certified veterinary ophthalmologist. She couldn't be bothered
checking. We have enough human doctors lurking around here that we should
be able to get an answer, if there is one. I doubt there have been any
clinical studies of retired cyclists who raced under EPO with hematocrits of
60%+.

"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
...


B. Lafferty wrote:
I wonder if this might be the after effect of EPO use. Deep vein
thrombosis, according to my veterinary wife, can be caused by sludging of
the blood (high hematocrit) which causes damage to the vein leading to
leakage. I suppose the issue is whether or not the stress on deep veins
from cycling years using EPO can result in vein damage that can lead to
thrombosis problems a few years later. Furlan was a patient of Ferrari
with Ferrari's records indicating that Furlan's hematocrit went from 38.8
to 51 during a period of six months.


This sounds unlikely to me. I think if the blood is thick enough to cause
"sludging" the effects would be immediate and grave. After discontinuing
EPO, the crit probably would return to normal within a few months at most
(IIRC, the average life of an erythrocyte is about 120 days).
OTOH, I would guess that depending upon saddle style, posture, etc. that
years of sitting in the saddle could affect venous return from the legs.
Without getting into gruesome details, I've personally seen some
unpleasant effects. Furthermore, perfectly healthy people can have
problems with leg thromboses in certain circumstances, such as sitting
relatively immobile on a long transatlantic flight. Thrombosis and emboli
are becoming more recognized as a significant risk in situations like
this.


It was because of the thrombosis that Furlan ended his career.

Benjo