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#52
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Chain Stretch
On 19/09/17 06:56, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data? How does it help? Curiosity? Bragging rights? It can be useful to keep a track of component longevity and compare wear rates with other brands or models or maintenance routines. -- JS |
#53
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Chain Stretch
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:37:18 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/18/2017 3:56 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote: On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote: On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote: snip I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life. I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh. Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette. I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life. I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version. I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some. I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer. I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick. So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them. It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex. For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking. So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life. Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that. Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that. Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I can search for. It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark and cold. I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the Garmin/Garmin Connect and Strava. But I also have an app on my phone that tracks my maintenance. It's called Feedback and it links to my Strava account to get my mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a task. It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a button when the maintenance is done. Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data? How does it help? There are guys who keep meticulous maintenance records for cars, diet, home repairs etc too. Nothing wrong with that. We have a couple of customers who can tell us how many miles are on this chain, this tire, when brake pads or a gear wire were changed or the last Ergo rebuild, all for multiple bikes. One of our later-famous employees wrote the date on the base tape of a new tubular (ancient analog system). If you care, it's easy to track. If you don't no one will think less of you. I beat Mark yesterday! In your face Mark! He beat me two weeks ago on a long gravel climb. Chris always beats me. Mike sometimes (down the list of riding companions). That's my training log. Oh, I forgot -- I had a flat yesterday. I logged that by hanging the tube on the "to-patch" hook in my garage. Captain's log, September 18, 2017 -- it's dark and raining. I have to ride home from work. (download that for six months). -- Jay Beattie. |
#54
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Chain Stretch
On 9/18/2017 5:29 PM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 10:56:38 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote: On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote: On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote: snip I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life. I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh. Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette. I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life. I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version. I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some. I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer. I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick. So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them. It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex. For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking. So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life. Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses.Â* It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage.Â* Goddamn!Â* Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage.Â* I better stop paying that. Same way with chains and cassettes.Â* Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains.Â* I better stop doing that. Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I can search for. It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark and cold. I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the Garmin/Garmin Connect and Strava.Â* But I also have an app on my phone that tracks my maintenance.Â* It's called Feedback and it links to my Strava account to get my mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a task. It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a button when the maintenance is done. Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data? How does it help? -- - Frank Krygowski I sense a negative undertone. Help with what? Does it need to help with anything? Did you never kept a log or travel diary or I didn't mean anything particularly negative. I've always kept a maintenance notebook on every car and motorcycle. Particularly with the old motorcycle, which seems to have some quirky problems from time to time, it's sometimes handy to remember what worked and what didn't, or odd tricks that I used to solve problems. I started keeping notes about bicycle maintenance a few years ago, mostly as a curiosity. But I don't think I've gotten much actual benefit. Oddly, if I'd kept maintenance records on our house, that probably would have given me the most benefit over the years. Examples: writing down paint color codes; notes on wiring (or a wiring diagram); notes on landscaping plant types, fertilizers, whatever. But it didn't occur to me to do a house maintenance notebook until just a few years ago. About bicycling: I don't think performance or training records are going to do me any good at this stage of my life. I know I'll get slower every year. I prefer to ignore that, not see evidence of it! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#55
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Chain Stretch
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 3:42:58 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/18/2017 5:29 PM, wrote: On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 10:56:38 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote: On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote: On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote: snip I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life. I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh. Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette. I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life. I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version. I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some. I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.. I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick. So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them. It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. |
#56
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Chain Stretch
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#57
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Chain Stretch
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 2:30:01 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 10:56:38 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/18/2017 4:29 PM, Duane wrote: On 18/09/2017 2:12 PM, wrote: On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:02:11 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote: snip I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life. I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh. Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette. I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life. I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version. I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some. I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.. I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick. So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them. It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.. For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking. So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life. Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses.Â* It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage.Â* Goddamn!Â* Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage.Â* I better stop paying that. Same way with chains and cassettes.Â* Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains.Â* I better stop doing that. Jay I agree with you. My garmin records all my rides and these are automatically uploaded to my garmin connect account which bounces them to my strava account. Once a week I input my rides from my garmin to another program (Sporttracks) which is much better for analysing if I want to. Here I enter which bike I used for every ride so the mileage on every bike is known. When I replace a chain I make a note which I can search for. It is a little effort, but it doesn't affect my choice for tires, chains or cassettes. It is what it is. I refuse to ride ****ty tires or use third party chains which shift not as well, just because the are cheaper. In winter I ride Continental Grand Prix 4 seasons because they have a better puncture resistance which is annoying in the dark and cold. I'm doing exactly what you're doing Lou with the Garmin/Garmin Connect and Strava.Â* But I also have an app on my phone that tracks my maintenance.Â* It's called Feedback and it links to my Strava account to get my mileage. It does alerts when distance or time expires on a task. It doesn't take much effort on my part except to click a button when the maintenance is done. Out of curiosity, what do you guys do with all that data? How does it help? -- - Frank Krygowski I sense a negative undertone. Help with what? Does it need to help with anything? Did you never kept a log or travel diary or took pictures? For me to relive my rides in any way. Lou, I keep track in a written log because I don't want information of every single thing that I do to be available on the Internet. |
#58
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Chain Stretch
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 3:54:30 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
I use a wax/oil mix, and I don't find the residue difficult to remove at all. I take the chain off, put it in the pot with the solid wax and heat the whole lot on a gas BBQ burner until the wax is completely liquified at least. I then remove the chain carefully, and let the excess wax mixture drip off before wiping any more excess off with a rag and letting it cool enough I can handle it before putting it in storage. While it is "cooking" and cooling I might rub off any build up of crud from the jockey wheels and such and fit the other chain. I alternate 2 chains on one cassette. On my cassettes it is hard enough that it has to be scraped off with a putty knife or even a chisel in some cases. The jockey wheels HAVE to be removed and scraped in the same fashion. If I clean it every week I suppose it would be easier to clean but I ride and don't do maintenance until it's necessary. |
#59
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Chain Stretch
About bicycling: I don't think performance or training records are going to do me any good at this stage of my life. I know I'll get slower every year. I prefer to ignore that, not see evidence of it! Touring diaries are fun to reread |
#60
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Chain Stretch
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 8:21:14 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 07:44:29 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 9/15/2017 4:48 AM, John B. wrote: I've been thinking about chain wear, sometimes called ch See section #8d.2 he http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part3/ Yup, Brandt (in all his glory :-) Disagree. Completely. Brandt shines much, much more brightly, where the subject has more depth. These few words, although correct and useful, are most assuredly NOT Brandt at his finest. |
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