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Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 27th 07, 02:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Michael Press
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,202
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

In article ,
"Bill Sornson" wrote:

Does this help?


Yes, I finally get it. Took me a while.

Mamba wrote:
"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article
.com
,
"ddog" wrote:
Michael Press wrote:

snip

Do not top post. I fixed it for you.

In the cases reported I spent _less_ time with the
brakes on. I was not dragging the brakes as you say.


I am curious about the "top post" comment. It appears that bottom
posting encourages bandwidth waste and the inclusion of way too much
verbiage, especially in longer threads. Since all prior occurances
in the thread would likely contain the same stuff, seems redundant.

I realize that some folks use readers that make this desirable, and
I'm not flaming. Just curious about why this became the "way" to do
it on usenet?


--
Michael Press
Ads
  #32  
Old January 27th 07, 04:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Bill Westphal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

wrote:
Andrew Muzi writes:

Do not top post. I fixed it for you. In the cases reported I
spent _less_ time with the brakes on. I was not dragging the
brakes as you say.


I am curious about the "top post" comment. It appears that bottom
posting encourages bandwidth waste and the inclusion of way too
much verbiage, especially in longer threads. Since all prior
occurances in the thread would likely contain the same stuff, seems
redundant.


I realize that some folks use readers that make this desirable, and
I'm not flaming. Just curious about why this became the "way" to
do it on usenet?


Secondly, it is possible to edit or 'snip' quoted material to
enhance readability while retaining the prior writer's point. (It's
also possible to chop up another's words into a twisted version
unlike his intent but that's another topic)


.backwards running is conversation of flow the if as, oddly reads
posting Top .annoying posting top find ,me including ,people Some


Well said. I suspect another aversion to sequential (bottom) posting
is that the writer has made up his mind what he wants to say and
doesn't care what the previous writer(s) have offered that might
conflict with his views.


Okay, it's time for a rant. That is exactly at the heart of it.

Prior to about 1995 ALL email/usenet used bottom posting, or
interspersed posting, writing the reply directly below that which
you're replying to, because the vast majority of internet email/usenet
users were highly intellegent people, and it just made sense. Nobody
questioned it. And the internet was solely the domain of elite
universities and UNIX. Everyone had access to so-called "bulletin
boards" that you could connect to with a modem, but the discussion
groups were small, and populated by many uninteresting people. The
early '90's saw some corporatations desiring to "connect" to this
wonderful internet (at great expense), mainly pushed by people fresh
out of the universities, but this met with a lot of resistance from
the established middle managers with "mainframe" mentality,
middle-aged mainframe programmers, and the stereotype that these young
techno-geeks couldn't possibly have anything useful to add to any
debate. First a few corporations connect relatively inexpensively via
modem, then some got leased lines, and started putting real money into
it. If you were involved in "research", or putting together a large
group of programmers, they would allow it. But they were the new kids
on the block, and they threatened the power of the established elite.
This corresponds to the downgrading of the engineer, e.g. in NYT the
engineers who designed and built the bridges were hero's early in the
20'th century, but were largely forgotten and ingored by the '60's,
when the non-technical manager and politician took credit for
everything.

Come 1995, the internet was getting pretty well established in the
fortune 50/100/500, and the middle managers felt "forced" into using
this medium when TONS of money started getting funneled into the
"internet", primarily from dictates from above, wishing to replace the
extravagant spending on mainframe and their programmers with so-called
mid-range systems, with potential saving beyond comprehension. Most of
my jobs in the '90's were involved in efforts to displace the
established elite, and the mainframers. But god forbid some young
technically minded person manage efforts of this sort, so these
old-timers were in charge, and they usually managed to bring about
failure, due to their incompentence. Many times these established
middle managers had their secretaries print out the email, or screen
it. One told me once that he didn't think he was obligated to even
look at it.

Meanwhile, more friendly interfaces (apple/windoze) became
email/internet capable, because there ain't no way these non-tech
managers were going to use a UNIX box, e.g. Sun/HP/etc, or, god
forbid, an ascii terminal, so common in the universities, although a
grad student and the profs always had their own Sun workstations,
courtesy of NSF. Also, because of the TONS of corporate money getting
poured into the internet, lots of real morons got jobs working with
computers. They just couldn't find enough people to fill all the
jobs. So these 2 groups flourished, and established top posting, to
the horror of those with years of hard work and experience. Usually
though, the top posts were only one or two lines, at most, so it was
somewhat managable. Many times the top-post is "call me".

The reasons for topposting are simple: They don't care about what
others techies have to say; they don't understand it and are too lazy
to learn because they know they can never compete on that playing
field, and they are too incompetent to edit text, or even move the
cursor. It's hard enough just typing complete sentences. Forget
about paragraphs.

Bill Westphal


A reason for not including all previous author's names is that the
response is to what the last person wrote which obviously covers what
went before. If a response to those is intended, one can scroll back
to do that directly. Besides, a stack of names at the top or even
interspersed makes unclear what transpired. the are
there to make clear from how far back the citations are.

Jobst Brandt

  #33  
Old January 27th 07, 05:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ddog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

Techies, lol

  #34  
Old January 27th 07, 07:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
A Muzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,551
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

ddog wrote:
-snip-
If you haven't caught on yet, 'rules' and 'procedures' for those who
can't differentiate and
make decisions on their own OR critical safety/quality issues (which
this is not).

-snip-

I got run over by a girl in a truck who felt the same way about traffic
rules

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #35  
Old January 27th 07, 08:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ddog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

Safety issue always number one. There are always exceptions.
Like stop signs in parking lots. Don't worry about them unless other
vehicles are around.

On Jan 27, 1:47 am, A Muzi wrote:
ddog wrote:-snip- If you haven't caught on yet, 'rules' and 'procedures' for those who
can't differentiate and
make decisions on their own OR critical safety/quality issues (which
this is not).-snip-


I got run over by a girl in a truck who felt the same way about traffic
rules

--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #36  
Old January 27th 07, 08:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Michael Press
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,202
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

In article
.com
,
"ddog" wrote:

Adults make and follow policies, Parents make procedures which Children
follow (Transactional Analysis - Eric Berne).
Starting to understand better now?


Transactional analysis is based upon negotiation. TA
teaches people how to negotiate better, making them
more successful than the schlubs who are poor
negotiators.

I am not negotiating on top posting.

Parents provide structure in a child's life, and help
the child develop self-discipline.

--
Michael Press
  #37  
Old January 27th 07, 02:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ddog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.



On Jan 27, 2:56 am, Michael Press wrote:
In article
.com
,

"ddog" wrote:
Adults make and follow policies, Parents make procedures which Children
follow (Transactional Analysis - Eric Berne).
Starting to understand better now?

Transactional analysis is based upon negotiation. TA
teaches people how to negotiate better, making them
more successful than the schlubs who are poor
negotiators.

I am not negotiating on top posting.
Parents provide structure in a child's life, and help
the child develop self-discipline.
Michael Press


Michael,

Negotiations, lol. TA has to do with Parent, Child, Adult ego states
in every transaction people make
when they open their mouth or act out inner/exterior communications.
My example sentence is the most representative statement
which defines best the difference between the ego states. It may take
more than looking and
misunderstanding Wikepedia's sometimes scrambled meanings. And yes, I
have a graduate degree
in Human Relations, but it is not hard to understand: in fact TA is
astoundingly simple compared to Psychology
mile long meaningless terms without meaning. Negotiating? Lol, it does
take more time than hacking
up a thread message and glancing at Wikepedia though.

Parents can be nurturing, demanding, scolding, critical, or any number
of psychological games with the
opposing Child psychological game. ALL Parent or Child interactions
ARE psychological games.
Not all bad, but most of them are detrimental and prevents
intellectual development, accountability, and resolution.
The Adult ego state is the only ego state that does not utilize
psychological games, whichoften involve 'Tragic life scripts';
and is purely intellectual like Spock on Star Trek. You did say you
were a Trekkie
didn't you? Parents can and usually are self rightious pretentious
rule making non-negotiating
closed minds, like The Decider, GW Bush.

Before you lock your mind, you should be more open. If it doesn't hurt
anyone else than who cares?
Do you read 100% of what is written in threads? Do you think you are
an Apostle writing the Newest Testiment?
I may have glanced once or twice so far as to the meaning
of the source message if it is brief. If the person has something to
say then why rehash
reading history again? If you do, then the responsibility of
communication is always the sender, and they
are rarely worth reading if the message is not clear and can stand on
its own merit of the message independently communicated.

For example, in your rush to (Parent) Scold me, you missed a
revolutionary idea about why metallic rust (Salmon) pads overheat,
the true intuitive source, why past solutions were inneffective, and a
proposed solution that has a highly probable chance of success.
Then when you couldn't demand attention like your own Parents may have
required, you pouted from a Rebelious Child 'game' and
never progressed any further intellectually. Not to mention, you were
absolutely wrong based on a 'rigid' rule, by 'bloggers'.
I would give you a couple of good easy books to read on the subject,
since none
are artificially deep, but I would have to first check and verify what
Wikepedia has to say :-o

  #38  
Old January 27th 07, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ben C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,084
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.

On 2007-01-27, ddog wrote:
The Adult ego state is the only ego state that does not utilize
psychological games, whichoften involve 'Tragic life scripts'; and is
purely intellectual like Spock on Star Trek.


You're right that people's ego states sometimes turn threads into Tragic
Life Scripts.

But it's not all bad. You and I are motivated only by the pursuit of
total logic, but sometimes it's people's egotistical desire to prove
each other wrong at all costs that's what drives them to spend the
effort to write clear and well-researched posts.
  #39  
Old January 27th 07, 05:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,673
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.



On Jan 27, 2:04 am, "ddog" wrote:
Safety issue always number one. There are always exceptions.
Like stop signs in parking lots. Don't worry about them unless other
vehicles are around.

On Jan 27, 1:47 am, A Muzi wrote:

ddog wrote:-snip- If you haven't caught on yet, 'rules' and 'procedures' for those who
can't differentiate and
make decisions on their own OR critical safety/quality issues (which
this is not).-snip-


I got run over by a girl in a truck who felt the same way about traffic
rules


Just for the record, "ddog":

I'm reading this on Google Groups. I had the discussion sorted by
date, so one post didn't necessarily follow the one it responded to.

Even with your little top posted comment above, I had to ask myself
"What the hell is he referring to?"

Get with the program. If _everyone_ is telling you you're doing it
wrong, why persist? Learn to do it right. It works.

- Frank Krygowski

  #40  
Old January 27th 07, 06:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
ddog
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 273
Default Unnerving braking experiences; sudden braking increase.



On Jan 27, 11:58 am, wrote:
Get with the program. If _everyone_ is telling you you're doing it
wrong, why persist? Learn to do it right. It works.

- Frank Krygowski


Can I be Frank with you?
Because everyone does it and gives no more valid reasoning than that,
it does not come close to better logic and integrity.

When it is applicable, it will be done. Otherwise there are NO
absolute rules
in form no matter what you 'bark'. Minutia and human factor
engineering is
ignored by the ones who act like a 'standard' is the only measure of
their worth.
You can't see the big picture for being overly concerned about minor
insignificant details.

 




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