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#21
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:37:07 -0800, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-11-23 15:09, John B Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:29:58 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. That chain slipping off the large cog is often due to the derailer stop setting. Try, with the bike either hung from a bike maintenance stand or set bottom side up, setting the stop screw so it won't shift onto the large cod and then adjusting it say a quarter of a turn at a time until it will just shift. I've tried that. If I set the top idler much closer than 1/4" to the 40T cog shifting becomes laborious. VRRR .. RAT TAT TAT TRRRT KA-CLOCK. Sounds awful. Until I can make that next cassette mod I'll just have to shift back down to the first gear slowly. The chain coming off the large cog and going into the spokes is not a good thing as it tends to damage the spokes, particularly when it comes off under load, and you may have a series of drive side spoke breakage... how do I know all this? Because my chain came off under load :-) I had that happen on the MTB a lot (Dore XT indexed Shifters). There the main casue was rock hits. Rocks keep flying into the works all the time and then one bends the derailer hanger, and off the chain goes at the base of the next steep hill. Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. That was a very good thing. I wonder why that is no longer done. Hey, I can make one from Perspex, with embedded flashing blue LEDs :-) I'd guess that it isn't used today as the pseudo racers thought it looked "dorkie" and removed them before they took the bike out of the shop. .. |
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#22
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
Well, the only other thing I can think of is not related to your recent upgrade. In the past, when I have experienced a noise under power, it has been the cartridge bottom bracket failing. If that’s ok, then maybe check some other items that are not related to the upgrade, for instance, pedals, cleats, etc. Also check for frame breakage, stem and handlebar security, anything that strains when under power. Other than that, I am out of ideas.
This armchair troubleshooting across the internet only goes so far! I would need to see the bike to proceed any further. Please post back when you find it. |
#24
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 18:23, Earls61 wrote:
Well, the only other thing I can think of is not related to your recent upgrade. In the past, when I have experienced a noise under power, it has been the cartridge bottom bracket failing. If that’s ok, then maybe check some other items that are not related to the upgrade, for instance, pedals, cleats, etc. Also check for frame breakage, stem and handlebar security, anything that strains when under power. Other than that, I am out of ideas. This armchair troubleshooting across the internet only goes so far! I would need to see the bike to proceed any further. Please post back when you find it. I will. It happened immediately after installing a new cassette, new chain and new rear derailer so chances are 99% it's one of those. However, I need a 2nd person to ride next to me who has better directional hearing (mine partially went in an army accident) and who can closely watch what the frame/chainline/teeth do when pedaling hard on the stopped bike (brakes held). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#25
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-23 17:22, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:37:07 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 15:09, John B Slocomb wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 09:29:58 -0800, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-23 08:07, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 10:59:18 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: On 2018-11-22 20:59, John B Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 16:05:54 -0800, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? I've had a noise from a front derailer due to the chain rubbing on the derailer "cage". It's definitely not that. The chain visibly doesn't rub anywhere. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ You've checked that whilst riding? I find it interesting that the noise ONLY happens on the power stroke. While slowly riding up a hill under high power and then again with applied brakes leaning against a wall. However, on Sunday I'll have a friend take a close look while doing that. What's really weird is that it also emits this noise while on the largest 40T cog where it doesn't have a chance to rub against anything in the cassette. I can clearly see that it doesn't rub at the front derailer. My guess is that it is some sort to "teeth disengangement" sound. Another thing I found out is that one has to carefully and somewhat slowly shift onto the largest cog, else the chain flies over it and into the spokes. That is no problem though because I'll only use that on really steep hills. For most hills the (for me new) 36T will suffice. When I service this next time maybe I'll take the cogs off, make an aluminum protector disc, drill it and the 40T cog and mount that towards the spoke side. Should catch the chain. That chain slipping off the large cog is often due to the derailer stop setting. Try, with the bike either hung from a bike maintenance stand or set bottom side up, setting the stop screw so it won't shift onto the large cod and then adjusting it say a quarter of a turn at a time until it will just shift. I've tried that. If I set the top idler much closer than 1/4" to the 40T cog shifting becomes laborious. VRRR .. RAT TAT TAT TRRRT KA-CLOCK. Sounds awful. Until I can make that next cassette mod I'll just have to shift back down to the first gear slowly. The chain coming off the large cog and going into the spokes is not a good thing as it tends to damage the spokes, particularly when it comes off under load, and you may have a series of drive side spoke breakage... how do I know all this? Because my chain came off under load :-) I had that happen on the MTB a lot (Dore XT indexed Shifters). There the main casue was rock hits. Rocks keep flying into the works all the time and then one bends the derailer hanger, and off the chain goes at the base of the next steep hill. Back in the day, some bikes had a plastic plate mounted between the cassette and the wheel to protect the spokes. That was a very good thing. I wonder why that is no longer done. Hey, I can make one from Perspex, with embedded flashing blue LEDs :-) I'd guess that it isn't used today as the pseudo racers thought it looked "dorkie" and removed them before they took the bike out of the shop. Yeah, they also think side reflectors are dorky. That's how I almost hit a cyclist at night. He blew a stop sign, was on a dark frame, dark clothes. IOW he was nuts. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#26
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Still thinking about whet might be causing that noise. Cheers |
#27
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 11/24/2018 10:24 AM, Joerg wrote:
Yeah, they also think side reflectors are dorky. That's how I almost hit a cyclist at night. He blew a stop sign, was on a dark frame, dark clothes. IOW he was nuts. But the absence of side reflectors is the least of his problems. I assume he had no legal lights on the bike. That's problem #1. Blowing the stop sign was problem #2. The dark clothes, dark bike frame and lack of reflectors probably wouldn't have made a difference. And I don't want to see motorists blaming victims by saying "His bike and clothes were the wrong color." (If he did have legal lights and you failed to spot him, then your lack of observation was problem #1.) In a potential T impact like you describe, side reflectors are usually not in the car's headlight beams early enough to make a difference. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#28
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 2018-11-24 15:53, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? No but I might do that with some once they are worn. Done it before and it has never caused growling noises. I don't care much about losing the HG advantage and milliseconds during shifts. Still thinking about whet might be causing that noise. After church I'll do a ride with a buddy who is a machinist. Hopefully we'll find out what the noise is because next week there'd be a longer ride with a few guys where I don't want to become the one whose bike croaks. BTW, the machinist rides a beautifully restored (but modified) Peugeot PX-10 from 1972. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#29
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. |
#30
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Noise from new Sunrace cassette
On Sunday, November 25, 2018 at 8:27:18 AM UTC-8, Mark J. wrote:
On 11/24/2018 3:53 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 7:05:29 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote: After installing a new Sunrace 40-11T cassette (minus one cog), a new chain and a new rear derailer the road bike can now climb hills much better. 40T as biggest cog versus 32T before. Woohoo! However, on the middle and three larger cogs (it's now a 7-speed) there is a distinct vrrrt .. vrrrt sound when under heavy load. Maybe from the chain because with a derailer setup it'll never run 100% straight. Hard to say. The noise appears briefly twice per pedal crank rotation and always on the power strokes. The chain is a KMC Z50 that should be suited for 7-speed and I looked, it doesn't rub against a neighbor cog. Maybe a "teeth exit grinding"? On the 3rd cog from the largest it's really weird because that has an almost perfect chain line when on the small chain ring up front. Anyone heard that before? Can it simply be ignored? Or maybe it'll go away over time? -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ When you installed your hacked cassette you didn't put the individual cogs on backwards did you? Worth checking, but probably not possible with "modern" Shimano-compatible cassettes. I think the Shimano spline pattern last allowed cog-reversal before cogs were given shifting ramps, i.e. in the 70s-early 80s. Mark J. Yes, non-symmetrical splines on Hyperglide cassettes. You can't flip them. -- Jay Beattie. |
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